The Sequoia Breeze

Rebecca: Welcome listeners to the Sequoia Breeze Podcast, a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I am your host, Rebecca La Savio.

Thank you for joining me today for a special bonus episode that's outside of a regular season because we have an issue that's somewhat of a hot topic and so I hope you will stick around and and listen in to what you can do and how you need to be informed about AB84.

Welcome listeners to a special edition of the Sequoia Breeze Podcast. Today I am honored to have Cynthia Rachel join me to talk about a pretty important topic that we think you should all know about.

Some of you may have already heard of AB84,

a bill that is making its way through the California Legislature right now. And Cynthia is going to tell us more about that. So go ahead and introduce yourself please and tell us why we're talking to you about this.

Cynthia: Yeah, so I'm Cynthia Rachel and my day job is that I work for Innovative Education Management and our three charter schools, which are Ocean Grove, Sky Mountain and South Sutter. But I also run and I'm on the steering committee for the alliance of Parents for Personalized Learning Education,

lovingly known as Apple.

And our, our mission is to help parents to better advocate for school choice and parental rights within education and having the ability to find the educational path that works best for each of their children.

Rebecca: So between IEM and Sequoia Grove, we've got a really big number of California's charter students and that's why we're talking about this, because this bill directly affects charter,

all charter families. So why don't you tell us a little bit about it? What is this bill about and why are we so concerned about it?

Cynthia: AB84 was introduced. It was authored by assembly member Al Marisucci from Southern California. He's also the chair of the Assembly Education Committee, which is a pretty powerful place to be within the education political landscape.

So about anywhere from seven to 10 years ago, depending on the situations and cases that are discussed,

there were some significant instances of fraud within the charter school sector and specifically within the sector that both Sequoia Grove and IEM live in, which is deemed under regulatory language as non classroom based.

A lot of us call ourselves flex based or personalized learning.

Hybrid is another term that some people use.

And within that there there were some cases of criminal activity that was occurring within the charter sector. So in response to that we had a moratorium on opening new non classroom based charters.

And originally it was two years and then we had Covid and then There were extensions and extensions that were put onto it. So, so part of the moratorium or the reasoning behind it was because they felt there was a need for an overhaul or significant reform to happen within the charter sector and specifically around these non classroom based schools.

So in the last couple of years there have been some studies and reports that came out about and provided recommendations on how to address what they call waste, fraud and abuse and prevent it from happening.

I, I do think it's important to note that in the criminal cases that occurred due to the Fraud Prior to 2019,

they were activities that were already illegal.

So the people that participated in them, the school leaders that were involved, the school district leaders that were involved,

knowingly broke the law and that's why they were held criminally, criminally liable for their activity.

So I think that's important because this is one of the cases where law abiding citizens are going to then have to deal with the outcomes of criminal behavior by people that were never going to follow the law anyways.

Rebecca: So this bill is in response to illegal activity, fraud that did occur and wanting to hold charter schools more highly accountable,

but looking for accountability where it already exists, Is that what I hear you saying?

Cynthia: Yes. So it was already against the law and they knew that. So it wasn't really like a oopsie, we had no idea we couldn't do that.

And so that's where it is challenging for schools that are following the laws is that AB84 is going to tack on some significant burdens to the schools, to the authorizing school districts that are supporting schools like ours, and then ultimately cutting the access to educational opportunities for students whose parents enrolled them in these schools.

Rebecca: Talk to us about that. What are we worried will happen if this bill passes?

Cynthia: So the most troublesome part for schools like ours is that across the board there will be a 30% funding reduction.

So imagine for every dollar that a student in a site based school receives, our students would only receive 70 cents.

And a lot of people will say, oh well, you don't have to pay for classrooms or janitors or you know, those things for running a five day a week facility.

But the reality is that school districts are actually funded for their facilities outside of this funding structure.

So it's not taking away from the expenses that we don't have, it's directly taking away from the expenses we have that are directly related to educating our students.

So that's a big piece.

And there's a ton of funding opportunities that personalized learning schools do not have access to. Like the expanded learning opportunities Grants.

Facilities Grant opportunities. Even though many of us do run facilities, we have to fund those out of our standard general fund to even the construction cost and then any overhead related to those.

So that is an important distinction between a site based program and a program that operates in this flex based world is that we don't have access to the funding that helps to pay for those classrooms, learning centers and things.

So we're, we're creating that out of the funds, the total funds that the school receives to operate our program.

Along with that, many,

many schools that operate in this personalized learning or flex based world do so by partnering with local school districts. And some of them are small school districts that provide their authorization.

And for many years this has been a very successful partnership because the oversight or authorizer fees that the charter school pays to the school district helps to also support the educational opportunities for the students enrolled in that district.

So it is really a win win partnership where the charter school is able to operate through this authorization and then the authorizing school district is able to create more robust opportunities for their students because of this partnership.

For our school, South Sutter, we have a wonderful relationship with our authorizer and we are actually able to build on their property and have a facility there. And now their students can come over and use our facility during off time.

So we recently were able to have all of their ELOP kids come over and do a science class in our lab using our stream table. And it really is a benefit to both schools to have that partnership.

But under AB84, they want to get rid of small school districts as authorizers. Again, in response to the fraudulent or the fraud case a few, you know, seven to 10 years ago that did occur at a small school district.

But we know that fraud could happen anywhere, you know, and we don't ever want to make light of what happened. But it also doesn't make sense to hold everyone responsible for the actions of a school district.

You know, one school district in one county is now having this ripple effect across the state. So we definitely see that authorizing school districts need access to support to make sure that they're, they feel competent to do their job.

And if they have questions, they need somebody they can go to to get help with that.

But that doesn't mean that the size of the school district dictates whether or not they're capable of doing the work of being an authorizer.

And I think in the 30 year history of charter schools in California, we've seen,

I mean, you know, We've seen isolated instances where it didn't go well,

but we have seen,

you know, year after year after year,

instances of success and positive partnerships.

So that's discouraging for,

for us that to think that those small authorizers and the students that they serve within their district could be negatively impacted because of the actions of a small group that maybe wasn't even in the same part of the state as them.

Rebecca: So we have reduced funding, reduced partnership with like, with faithful small school districts as well as we get into some real problems with the, our vendor relationships.

Cynthia: Yes, yes. So,

so the other.

So I should say the bill is 114 pages. So there's a lot in there. They really, they threw in every recommendation and then some more stuff on top of every recommendation.

And we always know that when you get recommendations,

they're like a guidebook and you should pick and choose wisely from them, not throw them all in together at the same time.

But that is what they did here. And then they added some additional things on top of it. On the vendor front.

So many schools that operate in flex based learning partner with local businesses to provide these educational opportunities and enrichment opportunities for students and they want to remove the ability for schools to allocate funding for these vendors.

Especially in the case where parents have a voice in that decision,

which is a challenge because while parents always have the choice, in our setting, there's this belief that,

you know, basically that the teachers aren't in a position to make a decision where we know that our teachers are. Not only do they have the ability to, but they're exposed to, expected to say whether something is educationally appropriate for a child or not.

So we've been working a lot with families really to, to really talk about that experience that they have with their credentialed teacher. Whether you call them an es, an est,

a plt, you know, all the different names. Hst.

Yeah.

So T, O, R. I mean you name the letter of the Alphabet. There's probably a teacher title that is built into it. But really there is a critical role there in overseeing a child's education and helping to drive their learning.

So we want families to,

as much as they might identify as homeschoolers, they really need to publicly speak about their relationship with the charter school.

As their children are enrolled in a public school, they are overseen by a certificated teacher, you know, a California credentialed teacher, however you want to say it and not downplay the role that that teacher plays.

Because there is a belief out there that the Parents just do anything that they want and that this teacher doesn't have a say.

And we know that that's not true, but that's the way it's being portrayed. And so that's what they're running with in the bill language. You can see very clearly the things that they are making assumptions about.

And they're totally comfortable living with those assumptions and they don't really want to,

to hear more about how it isn't true. They've made up their mind and this is what they want to run with.

Rebecca: When you say they, do you mean the Education committee or the assembly in general?

Cynthia: So at this point, because the bill came out of Assembly Education and it was authored by the chair of that committee, I would say that belief mostly exists within that office, the chair and then the Assembly Education Committee office.

Okay.

And,

and it's, it's one of those things that,

you know,

flex based schools make up about 25% of charter schools in California. And within that, you know, you're just getting more and more and more nuanced and it's hard for them to keep track of us like we're the, the square peg in the round hole and, you know, we're weird to other people.

They don't really understand how it works.

So you end up having to get into the weeds with them, which is really challenging. But I think it's important to point out that yes, parents have the right to come and say, hey, I think this would be really great for my kid.

Just like I have the right to go to my daughter's first grade teacher and say, hey, I think this would be a really great educational opportunity. Let's go to the railroad museum or let's go to Shady Creek and go to outdoor science camp or, you know, whatever it is.

The same way the teacher ultimately is going to say either yes or no. That's not something that, that fits into our educational plan.

The only difference is, is that our teacher, in order to be able to say yes to that one parent, they don't have to say yes for everyone to have that same experience.

It's not an all or nothing.

It really can be personalized and customized for that child.

So oftentimes you are able to say yes to things that maybe you wouldn't have said was like, necessary for everyone,

but absolutely fits the needs of that one child. And that's the beauty of our setting.

Rebecca: So the problem that this bill presents for our vendor relationships is that it's suddenly requiring more credentialing. Correct.

Cynthia: So there's A few things. One, there is a credentialing component, but they also, for those.

The funds that are allocated for educational enrichment, I believe they call it,

and has that parental piece to it, they're saying it can't be provided for by somebody that's not an employee of the school.

So, credential or not,

it really dissolves the service vendor relationship.

Rebecca: Oh, I understood that the vendor relationship could continue so long as the vendor had a credential in the thing they were teaching.

Cynthia: So there's. There's two different ones. So the instructional funds being allocated for services that are chosen by the parent is that those services would have to be required,

provided by an employee of the school.

So it. It's a mess. I mean, and it hurts our small business community.

Rebecca: Yeah, there's so many people that make a living.

Cynthia: So many. So I recently spoke to our local chamber of commerce about it, and I said, you know, even in our small counties, we have 50 vendors, 50 small businesses that would be negatively impacted by this bill.

And because of that, our local chamber made the decision to oppose the bill because they could see the challenges that it would present. I've had a lot of vendors that said this will put me out of business.

I. I serve charter schools across the state.

You know, how long do I have to prepare? What does this look like? And so it is a significant change from the way that we've been able to operate for the last, you know, 20, 30 years, depending on the school that you're with.

So those are some of the, like, big ones that most parents are. Are concerned about and schools are concerned about. They also want to triple the oversight fee that you would pay to your school district,

which, on top of the 30% funding cut, would then remove another 3% from,

you know, the funds that are available to serve kids.

And I think that the important thing in any conversations that we have about AB84 and the impacts that it has on our schools is to focus on the kids and to ask the question of why does a child get penalized because their parents made a choice within the public education sector of choices that are allowed,

they are restricted by 30% or 33% with oversight fees, you know, in their access to educational programs. That doesn't make sense to me. I don't think that makes sense to anyone when you get down to it.

And so if families are having conversations in their community and families are talking with their elected representatives, always keeping it about the kids is going to be the key to getting around all that grownup, oh, well, you know, the cost of this and the cost of that, the reality is the funds are assigned to the school that the child attends for the education of that child.

So why is this child worth 30% less than another child? Explain that to me. And I don't think anyone can.

If you keep it about the kids, it's very hard to have that discussion to justify cutting educational opportunities for one group of kids.

Rebecca: So where is this bill right now?

Cynthia: Right now, as of so April 30, it passed out of the Assembly Education Committee. As expected.

That committee is very divided and it split down the middle, or not down the middle, seven to two, so very far from the middle. But we had expected that. And so we had told, you know, families and charter school supporters like this isn't the place where the fight is going to,

you know, that you're,

you can come, you can voice your opinion, but don't be discouraged when they still approve it. We knew that that was the likely outcome.

Now it is sitting with the Assembly Appropriations Committee where they're going to look at the expense of it, the impact on the California budget.

If it passes appropriations, then it would go to the assembly floor.

And that's when a lot of organizations will say, call your assembly member, have a conversation, call and express your concern, share your story.

Because at that point, everyone in the assembly, every single assembly member, regardless of the committee that they serve on, is going to have a voice in this.

If it passes there, then sometime it has to move out of what they call the House of origin, which in this case is the Assembly. It has to move out by June 6th or on June 6th.

And so at that point it would go to the Senate and then the Senate's going to go through those same committees. Then it would go to the Senate floor and if there's amendments, it goes back and forth.

It gets very messy.

But then by September,

it would have to get to the governor's desk and then he has until the middle of October to either sign or veto.

And our goal is to just keep educating elected officials on what we're dealing with, what this really means,

what is the reality of the state of personalized learning in flex based schools? Because there's incredible things happening here. Our students didn't experience learning loss in the way that site based students did when school shut down.

We were able to continue operating and serving our kids and even showing academic gains in that time.

And that's not, that's not true anywhere else. You know, we were already set up to pivot and make this work with we. None of us closed. We never stopped working.

We never had to file for a waiver for attendance because we kept doing what we do best,

and that is serving our kids in whatever way we can.

So just telling those stories, making sure if you're a family that normally says, we homeschool kids, consider changing your tone and changing that to,

we partner with a charter school. My kids go to a charter school. My kids are enrolled in a charter school. And we get to do all of these amazing learning opportunities at home and in our community because of the charter school that we're enrolled with.

Rebecca: So to go back to that for a second, because after you.

Apple hosted a Zoom meeting to help educate people about what was going on.

And I've talked to several people independently that went. That attended that Zoom meeting and came away. That was their biggest takeaway, was don't say you're a homeschooler. And that's smart.

Like, we're here because we want to homeschool, right?

Cynthia: Yeah, it's tricky. But in what we've seen, and this is the true. The same in years past when there have been other bills that impacted schools like ours, is that families would get up and testify and say, I'm a homeschooling parent, and I oppose this bill.

Bill. And I heard in those hearings people elected representatives up there saying, we're not messing with homeschool kids. Like, why are they here? And then you can tell that they just check out.

They're not even listening anymore because they assume that you don't know what you're talking about. You got bad information,

and we're not doing anything that would harm you.

What they don't understand is that in their mind,

homeschooling in California, rightfully so, is a private school affidavit. That is a family that is doing it independently.

That's different than being enrolled in a public charter school that offers this independent study model, technically speaking, independent study,

you know, and. But a lot of our families, like, that's part of their identity, you know, that I'm a homeschooling parent, and this is something that's really close to my heart,

and I fully support that. I just ask that when you're speaking about your schooling experience and all the opportunities that you have because of the charter that you're enrolled with,

that you keep that in there. We had some parents at the hearing this last time. You could tell they're learning because they said, oh, I mean, I. I homeschool through a charter, or the charter lets Me, homeschool.

They were trying, they were getting there.

So it's all about, you know, baby steps. But that is a big one. And if people ever have questions about how to talk about it, they can absolutely come. Apple has a Facebook group.

We have a website.

And you can come and ask questions and just say, hey, how do I do this? Or what should I say here? Or what does that look like?

And we're happy to help you to kind of clarify your message. But yes, that was. Somebody had said, huh. I never really thought about it. And we've just seen too many times where they just dismiss you.

They assume you have no clue what you're talking about or that somebody got you all riled up and you don't need to be here because we're not going to hurt your kids.

They also kept making comments like, don't worry to everyone who is testifying. Don't worry. We're. This isn't going to affect good schools.

Nowhere in the language does it say good charter schools are exempt from this law. You know, this bill is only at bad charter schools. But they just have this belief that, oh, well, if your school's doing what it's supposed to, then this shouldn't negatively impact it.

Not realizing,

and I don't know how, but not realizing that, gosh, 30% funding cut might negatively impact a good school,

you know, that's going to hurt everyone. I don't know that anyone wants to live or work off of 30% less than what they have currently, especially in the economy that we're in right now.

Rebecca: So we're not asking anybody to change their own homeschool hearts. We're not asking you to educate your kids differently.

We're asking you to use different language as you're posting about or writing to or approaching your assemblyman or assembly person, and to simply be understood correctly instead of misunderstood and thought to be irrelevant.

We don't want you to be irrelevant.

Cynthia: Yeah. Because you want your voice to count.

Yeah. You took the time to make that call or to drive down to Sacramento or up to Sacramento. And yeah, that's where I always think, like, they were so quick to dismiss, but like, these people took the time to come.

Like, there's a reason they showed up and they. They hear hundreds, thousands of bills in any legislative cycle and it is hard to get into the weeds on everything.

So just the more clear you can be. And when you call representative's office,

you likely won't get to speak with that representative. You know, that assembly member or senator,

they're at the Capitol four days a week, they're home three days a week. They're running around like crazy to get to all the different events and, you know, all their appearances and requirements.

But they have some of the most dedicated staff and you will get to talk to somebody. And they do an incredible job,

even if they don't always agree with your position of at least relaying that message.

So,

you know, if they find out, like, hey, we got 700 calls today, you know, with concerns about AB84,

it helps it to kind of, kind of like when you upvote something, you know, like, if you like this question, put a thumbs up and then it starts to rise to the top.

It does the same for them because it, it shows that for their constituents, this is a big issue and they need to learn about it. And so if you can call your local representatives and say, this is the way this is going to harm the my children and we are constituents in your district,

your community,

the more calls they get like that, the more they have to take notice and say, okay, am I willing to,

you know, harm 700 of my constituents?

Because that's what this bill would do. So it doesn't always work. You know, it doesn't always. It's not a direct correlation to how many opposition calls they get and whether they vote yes or no.

But that is part of this process. And then also you keep track of that for election time in the future and look at how, where do they fall on those, those things, those topics that are of importance to your family.

Rebecca: Is there a place in this process where you expect it to be more likely to be voted down? Is there a particular committee or.

Cynthia: Yeah, it's really hard to know. I've heard Senate Appropriations, but that's really far down the road. And I would love for it to stop before then so that everyone can have summer break and breathe a little.

But,

you know, the, the assembly floor,

you know, I like the floor votes because then you don't have to live in a particular district to hear to voice your opinion.

It's a little clunky to get through to some of the committees if you don't live in their district. You can use the legislative portal, it's called the position letter portal, where you can write a letter about this bill and it will go to whatever committees are hearing the bill.

So you absolutely can write a letter that way. But if you're trying to call or email, sometimes there's,

there's barriers. If you don't have an address within that particular Representative's district.

So the assembly floor, everyone gets a vote.

And we need 41 people to vote no in the assembly for it. Either vote no or not show up to vote, because both of those count.

So if you have an assembly member that is more pro.

School districts typically, but they're open to hearing about how your school experience has been positive. They could always just choose not to be available for the vote if they don't want to go on the record as a no vote.

But we do need 41 out of the 80, so it's a simple majority that would stop it or move it forward.

Is that, you know, that would be beautiful.

Rebecca: Is that the day to show up?

Cynthia: So it's not. It's not really.

So floor votes, they aren't great for hearing from the public,

but that would be the time when we know if it's going to the floor. That's when you'll see a call to action to start calling. Okay. It's fun to go to the Capitol.

It's nice to be included in the process. But really that part to me feels like more show where all the behind the scenes of calling, having conversations with your representative's office, with their staffers,

that's where you're actually going to move people.

By the time they get there for the assembly floor vote, they pretty well have it in their head which way they're going to vote.

So leading up to that, though. Absolutely. Flooding their offices with calls will be very powerful.

Rebecca: Okay, so that the next vote in the Appropriations Committee is when.

Cynthia: So it'll be sometime this month.

We don't know for sure. Because any bill that has a significant potential financial impact on the state,

it gets moved to what's called the suspense file. And they have to consider it more because it's expensive.

And so we do expect that this bill could hang out there for a little while, but we aren't resting on the fact that it would be too expensive expensive to pass.

So it could still move out.

Rebecca: How would it cost the state money? It sounds like they're just taking the money.

Cynthia: Well, they are taking a lot. So that's what it comes down to, is really proposing that. So within the bill, some of the more like nuanced stuff that is a little bit more separated from a lot of parental concerns is they want to create cars net, which used to exist,

it was an authorizer network.

And then they want to create office at the state level called the inspector general of charter schools.

And there's an anticipated cost of anywhere from 30 to 60 million dollars for the inspector general office.

Like the. I don't know, all the people, all the processes, all of that. So there are some significant costs tied to this. The increase in oversight fees. That is an expense that the state would have to build into the funding for schools.

But then there's the 30% proposed cut for schools like ours and on a sliding scale based on the number of days students attend a campus, blah, blah, blah.

So it is difficult to know just how expensive it will be. And so all of the different advocacy groups are working on mock ups of what they think would be the cost.

And all of those will get presented to the Appropriations committee for consideration when they look at how does this fit into the overall budget.

Rebecca: So this bill would affect all charter schools, but the.

Cynthia: And some school districts too.

Rebecca: Okay.

Cynthia: Yeah.

Rebecca: It's not just us that's affected. It's just we would feel the pension really specific and painful.

Cynthia: Yes.

Yeah. So there's a lot where they talk about wanting to have parity between the school districts and the charter schools, but they do fail to remember that school districts don't have to get renewed every five years.

School districts are here forever.

You know, that's a big difference. So there are some areas where we are,

by the nature of charter, this Charter school Act of 1992. Different beasts, you know, we're all just different forms of public education.

So there's some areas where they say, like this would be a best practice for everyone and it would affect everyone. But the significant cuts and changes are absolutely focused on those that they call non classroom based.

We call flex based personalized learning. So because it's not true that. That all the learning doesn't happen in a classroom. So it gives this like, misnomer that makes things more complicated when we know there's a ton of schools like ours that run four or five day a week facilities,

kids can come on campus, you know, as many days a week as they need help. Like there's so many different,

you know, college models and different things that are available to our students. So it really doesn't make sense to call us non classroom based.

But that term is just sort of stuck in recent years.

And we are hoping to get that updated so that it more accurately reflects the work that our kids are doing.

Rebecca: So right now we can go online and look up our assembly members,

start sending them some emails or making some phone calls in preparation,

especially perhaps if our assembly member is on the appropriations Committee,

which is.

Cynthia: Yeah, that definitely,

if they're on the committee, I will say appropriations.

They.

They're worried about like the bottom line.

So they're not as much of like the,

the touchy feely side of things. You know, they really want to know like the financial aspect. So great to call them if they're your assembly member and you want to express concern about this bill and what it's going to do with taxpayers of dollars.

But they're not there for the consideration of like, the educational impact of our schools. They're, they're really looking at the numbers. So, so just know that like they're, they may not be as receptive to the,

the whole child side of it just because that's not where their focus is. They're, they're crunching the numbers.

Rebecca: I hear you saying in a lot of different ways,

you don't have to dive in and become a political expert, but do do a little bit of research so that your effort is going in the right places and that your,

the, the angle you come at it is the appropriate one for the situation and to, to be heard, to be counted, to be considered.

Do, do just an. Do the minimum amount at least of effort to know who it is you're talking to or what it is they need to hear.

Cynthia: That's a great summary of it. That's also why we try to be really mindful at Apple of when we send out a call to action.

Like I said, we told people, if you want to come to the Capitol for the Education Committee hearing, you can.

But we, we've been there before when thousands of families have showed up and bills have still passed.

So.

And for a lot of families, that's very discouraging because they're like, I took the time we drove here, we slept in our car, you know, whatever it is. And they really thought, or they were led to believe that by showing up they were going to change the trajectory of that vote.

In the case of the Assembly Education Committee, we knew we weren't, we knew that was not a likely outcome. We even joked like one of the ladies, it was her birthday and somebody had said, we hope your birthday wish can come true, that the bill doesn't move forward.

And she was like, I didn't pick that my wish because I just know that like, that I'm setting myself up to be disappointed.

So we try to be really mindful. We don't want to be alarmist in the way that we're talking. This is a huge bill and it has the potential to be really negative for our students.

But we also want to be mindful. I've joked like I don't want to yell fire unless I have something you can actually do about it. You know, I don't want to scream that the sky is falling unless there are some tangible steps that I have for you in how you can respond to that.

Because we have been here a number of times and we've had some bills that have died. We have some bills that, that we've ended up having to live with and figure out how to make them work.

So this is, this is not new territory. And it's important to preserve your emotional energy as well as your physical energy because you can get really burnt out and really bitter digging into the, the political side of things if you aren't prepared and doing it in a, a really conscious way.

So we just want everyone to know if we say, hey, now's a good time to call, it's because we feel like it's going to make a difference versus just like call everyone they need to call right this minute.

I don't want to be inflammatory. This is, it can be big and scary and I don't think we need to like throw fuel on that. I want to make sure that we're very conscious in those decisions.

When we ask you to act or we say now's a good time to do it,

we absolutely mean that this is a great time to do it.

Rebecca: So I also want to ask you how families can stay up to date with what's going on and have you show us that. Because also I want to warn families. After it passed the Education Committee,

I saw people on Facebook on, in various homeschooling groups saying, it passed. It passed. It passed. No, no, no, no. It only passed the first of like six.

Cynthia: Six. Yeah. So it's a long road. Like I said, there's these curly cues and it goes all over the place.

Rebecca: So find the right source of information for knowing where it's at. So where would that be?

Cynthia: So if you go to the Apple Facebook group, it is the alliance of Parents for Personalized Learning Education,

you can get it there. There is also a group that started a website that is stopab84.com you can sign petitions there. You can send letters to your,

to your representatives. They have, you know, templates that are already ready.

So between Apple's Group and the stopab84.com website, you can get up to date information there.

And through Apple, you can reach out to myself and the other steering committee members and we're always happy to help.

All of the charter advocacy groups are really involved in this. So CCSA CSDC and A.

Everyone's working together to keep us all up to date and to give those marching orders on how to best support your child's education.

Rebecca: So we will know if this bill passes or not by October sometime.

Cynthia: Yes. And hopefully well before that. I mean that would,

I would say that's like worst case scenario because that means it made it every committee, every floor vote, and it went to the governor. Okay. You know, I think we'll have a pretty strong understanding of where we're at by the end of June.

But like I said, at any point it could get stopped. So if it was the Assembly Appropriations Committee, if it got stuck there and it went into that suspense folder, if it doesn't move out by June 6, it's done and it doesn't get the opportunity to come back until next year.

So,

so it. So there could die point.

Say that again, Sorry.

Rebecca: It could die of inactivity.

Cynthia: Yes.

Yeah. So if it doesn't move forward, then it's, it's done.

So at any point that could happen.

But it's just hard to. It's hard because when people say, when will we know? It's sort of like, well, it could be now or it could be October or really anywhere in between.

So we just want families to know that as you go off for summer break and you know, you're maybe checking your emails less or maybe you're not on social media as much, this is something to just keep in the back of your mind and you know, set a reminder once a week or something to check wherever you get your information from,

just to make sure that if there's a call to action that you have time to respond and be a part of it.

Okay.

Rebecca: And if it passes, it would go into effect not for this coming school year, but the following school year. Fall of 26. Correct.

Cynthia: So based on the new amendments that came out last week,

the financial cuts would not start until July of 26.

Prior to that they would have started in January.

So it would have been like a mid year. Oh yeah.

So I, we kept saying like that doesn't make sense to anybody. But so yeah, so July of 26. So you could,

as long as those amendments stayed in, if AB84 continued and passed, you would know that the funding restrictions would start the 26, 27 school year.

It's less clear on like the vendor issues and the authorizer oversight fees.

And then limiting the authorizer by size would be at the time of your renewal.

So that would be another, you know, it's like a lot of layers to it and a lot of different pieces.

So we just, you know, we're continuing to work to educate families and for families to learn to educate and advocate on behalf of their child.

Especially if you have a child that falls into,

you know, within the special education community or if your family is,

you know, in a marginalized community community, that those are the things that a lot of times they. They say, you know, oh, this wouldn't affect you. This wouldn't affect you.

But it does, you know, it doesn't know. We aren't enrolling based on any of those factors. So our, our students are a rich and diverse group, and they have unique needs, and we need to be able to honor those in school.

Rebecca: Well,

and also our schools are spread so far apart that the idea that, that our students would be able,

across the board,

to have equal opportunities if the school had to provide all of them is ridiculous. We can't offer the kids in Mendocino the same things that we offer the kids in.

In Tahoe and the same things that the kids in Rockland are getting. Like, that's not.

Cynthia: Well, and part of that, but when.

Rebecca: They depend on vendors, yes, they have.

Cynthia: Yeah.

So part of the reason that we can't provide all those services in house is because charter schools that operate under independent study are allowed to serve students in the county that they're authorized in, as well as the contiguous counties, the ones that touch it.

But because of previous legislation,

we are not allowed to locate a facility outside of our district boundaries. So even if you could just locate facilities within your authorizing county,

in some ways you'd at least be able to reach more of those kids.

But we are. We are in such a tiny hole of where we're allowed to have a physical location that it would make absolutely no sense for students to travel there.

Our Southern California school that we have covers almost 60,000 square miles of California.

We're allowed to operate a facility in the high desert in a tiny little town.

So we even looked at it for previous legislation,

if students had to receive their special education services within our authorizing boundary,

just the kids that lived within that county even would still have to travel over three hours one way to receive their services.

So we.

We are allowed to serve those kids. We have to admit all students that wish to attend that live within those counties. And yet we are.

We are held to this tiny little area where we're allowed to physically locate.

So vendors have been a beautiful partner to bring educational opportunities to all of our students.

So we, we hope that we can get that information out there, you know, in a way that they'll understand. But again, it is tricky because they just don't get into the weeds.

They don't. They really don't have the time or the bandwidth to get into the weeds. So we just have to come up with easy ways to really focus on. Every child is worth a hundred percent funding.

Rebecca: That's a powerful statement.

And I want to go. I want to clarify something with the vendors again real quick, because what I thought I understood, I don't think is what you said today. So I want to leave knowing I understood that.

So I understood that we would continue to be able to use vendor services, but they would have to be with a credentialed teacher, and that that would eliminate a huge portion of our vendors.

But you are saying we wouldn't actually be able to operate with vendors. We would have to provide any of those services by actual employees.

Credentialed employees of the school. Is that correct?

Cynthia: Yes.

Rebecca: Okay, so my mom, who wasn't.

Let me find, teaches piano and was a credentialed teacher,

could not continue to offer services teaching piano as a vendor. It would have. If the school wanted to offer piano, they would have to hire a piano teacher.

Cynthia: Correct. Okay, so let me find the language here to try to.

Rebecca: So it really does eliminate the vendor process.

Cynthia: It does. I mean, for services curriculum, it doesn't. It doesn't change that. And so schools have been contacting their vendors, letting them know their concerns about this bill,

trying to get that information out there so that vendors have the ability to advocate on their own behalf, too.

So let me find where.

Rebecca: So anybody who's listening to this podcast as a family should also send it along to their service providers, to their vendors, so that they can also be calling their assembly people and letting them know, hey, this affects you almost worse maybe than them, because this child can continue to go to school with fewer resources,

but the vendor will lose their job.

Cynthia: Yes. So the, the section,

if you're looking at the most recent bill, is section 43. But it says an LEA, which is a local education agency, which is a school,

shall not allocate or advertise the ability of funds or credits to be spent at the discretion of a pupil's parent, guardian, or educational rights holder for educational enrichment activities that are not provided by a credentialed employee of the LEA for the pupil and that are paid for by the lea.

So it's a really big way of saying it all has to be offered in house.

But again, we already know Outdoor science and other educational experiences that district schools do.

You know, all of elop.

All of those things are handled by non employees.

You know, when they bring in an assembly or they go out to a field trip or they go to have an enrichment activity somewhere.

Those aren't credentialed teachers. They're definitely not employees of the school.

So why are our students being held to this in a different way?

Rebecca: So would that only affect charter students or would that affect all public schools?

Cynthia: That's just for us,

because we're the only ones that allocate or advertise the ability of funds or credits to be spent at the discretion of the pupil's parent.

So what I would say is, while the parents have a choice. And again, this is about framing how you talk about things is,

yes, parents absolutely get to give impact input into what educational experiences their children can participate in,

but it comes back to that certificated teacher and the educational needs of that child.

So. But this is where, you know,

they're. They're. That's getting into the weeds of.

You could easily say, oh, well, it's not at the discretion of the parents. And so this doesn't apply to us. But we know the reality is that they are talking directly to the ways that our schools operate.

Rebecca: I. This bill feels like sour grapes.

Cynthia: I would say it feels like rocks and grapes.

Rebecca: But is that an inappropriate thing to say?

Cynthia: No, it's icky, it's big. It's really targeted.

It's extremely targeted.

Absolutely. And,

you know, there's a moratorium on charter schools like ours opening, and it's set to sunset January of 2026.

And,

you know, it has been pushed out a couple of times.

But, you know, they believe that this is the solution that will make the moratorium no longer be needed.

But it's just. It's so big, you know, I. I think I told somebody they took a chainsaw when you really needed a scalpel.

Like, we need to make some targeted changes. We can clean up some language. But nowhere in there and nowhere in any of the thick Matt and Lao recommendations or state controller recommendations did they ever say, cut our schools by 30%.

That is something that they came up with entirely on their own when they wrote the bill.

And so that is gross overreach. That is unnecessary and extremely punitive towards families that are making a very conscious decision that their children need a different educational opportunity.

Rebecca: Punitive is the word I've been looking for this whole conversation. Yes, I kept wanting to say penalized, but that wasn't quite right.

Cynthia: Well, it's. But it does.

Rebecca: I mean, there's that too. Yeah.

Cynthia: Yeah.

Rebecca: All right.

Cynthia: Sorry, I'm not like your upliving guest, but.

Rebecca: But it's a lot scarier to sit in the dark and wonder than it is to know the facts and how to act so.

Cynthia: Or to be blindsided after the fact. Yeah. You know, like the, what this happened, I had no idea.

So that is our goal is you do have to educate yourself and like you said, you don't have to be a political expert. And by no means am I 1.

I learned a lot just from being involved. And I also never thought this is where I would be. So here I am.

Rebecca: Well, but I think too sometimes families involved with charters just sort of head down, take care of their kids, meet with their teachers and they, they don't realize sometimes they can get frustrated with the schools for regulations that they're adding without realizing how directly those are coming from the legislature and things that the schools have no control over.

And here's one where we know ahead of time, let's fight this thing because the changes are not going to be pretty.

Cynthia: No, I mean I've, I've been telling people if, if this bill passes in any form similar to what it is right now,

our model of education will be flipped upside down come 26, 27 school year and we will be spending all next school year 25, 26,

reimagining it out.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Cynthia: What that looks like. And also preparing for what I would assume will be a mass exodus of families who will then go to the private school affidavit opportunity. I think that the legislature believes.

Well, I don't think it. They've said it, that classroom based instruction is the best for kids and that they want to reward it by giving it full funding and basically penalize you for not being in that favored setting.

But they think that by incentivizing it and making this more challenging that, you know, this big flock of students are all going to go back into a classroom. And we just know that's not true.

Rebecca: We know that our enough classrooms or teachers available, yes, for all the shocker.

Cynthia: There'S not enough teachers, there's not enough school buildings. But we need to push everybody back into a classroom. So yes, that is the other issue. They don't have the capacity to take this mass influx.

But also some families, yes, they'll go back because they need to, they want to, whatever that decision is. But I think a lot of students will just disappear into the PSA world and then nobody will really know what they're up to.

And they also won't have the support that they have in our schools. They won't have the access to special education services. You know, there's so many resources available by being enrolled in a school like ours that are not only beneficial but critical for our students.

And to say that their education is worth less and that they should have less choices because of the choice of their parents,

you know, it's not even like most kids are saying, this is where I want to be. It's a decision of the adults that are responsible for them. And they have a reason for making that decision.

And that should be valid. That should be seen as as good a reason as saying, I'm going to send my kids to the school down the street because it's close and it's convenient.

Okay. You're not going there necessarily because it's the best school,

but it meets a need of your family.

Our schools may be in the same boat. There's a need. We have a ton of first responder families.

They work some really wonky schedules and their parents have completely missed out on their education and on their life with their kids because of their schedules. And when they come to our school.

And mom or dad can now take an active role in educating them in the afternoons before they go off to work a nocturnal shift, or if they're, you know, if you're younger on the law enforcement side, you may only have Wednesdays and Thursdays off.

When are you going to see your kids?

In our setting, they absolutely can be an active parent in that child's life and in their education because they get to sit with them at the kitchen table and then they get to go off and do educational experiences with their kids those days, too.

So there's a reason that every child is in every school. And we just want everyone to have the opportunity to choose what is best for their own children.

Rebecca: Is the lack of room for all of these charter school kids in the local classrooms something to bring up to the appropriations committee? Is that something that.

Cynthia: I think it's,

I think it's being considered, but California as a whole has declining enrollment right now. And so I think in their minds there's room.

You know, they, they've got, they're. They're closing schools or they're closing classrooms because of declining enrollment.

And rather than look at why people are leaving.

Yeah, they just want to say, no, no, no, y' all have to come back this way. So.

So it is a discussion point. But I think that in their mind, at Least at the like 30,000 foot level, you know, without digging into the weeds, they see space for kids.

They think that the schools have room. And so, you know, if they, if half of them came back, we would find a place for them.

Rebecca: But living in a rural county, I often feel like those in the legislature have always lived in the city.

Cynthia: Just.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it is, it's absolutely different experiences.

The access to high quality public education is very different town to town. It's very different street to street.

You know, the you.

I live in a,

in a city that has I think like 18 schools and families are clamoring for like five of them.

And families are actively avoiding another five of them. And then there's sort of these like five to 10 in the middle that they're like, man, they're okay. It's okay if my kid goes there.

But you know, I mean,

if it wasn't an issue, people wouldn't lie about residency. They wouldn't be putting their name on other people's water bills to be able to enroll their child in a school that they feel is better for them.

The reality is everyone has a specific reason for selecting the school that they want for their children.

And that should be enough.

That should be enough to say, you're right, this is your child, you're responsible for them for the rest of their life.

And barring any, you know, wild outliers, the vast majority of parents are going to make the educational decision that is appropriate.

That could be the school down the street, that could be the school in the next town over. That could be a school like ours, that could be a private school affidavit or going to a private school.

They're going to make the decision that is best for their children. And ultimately they're the ones who live with the consequences of those decisions for the rest of their life more than anyone else does.

Rebecca: So find the Apple Facebook page, stay up to date. Find out who your assembly, assembly person and your, your senate member are.

Cynthia: Sorry.

Rebecca: And stay up to date. Reach out and let your favorite vendors know, hey,

speak up.

This is going to affect a lot of people and our legislators need to understand that.

Cynthia: Yep. And it all starts with families just getting informed and staying up to date on things. And like you had said, and I mentioned, you don't have to be an expert and they don't make it the most user friendly process.

But I promise you, the phone call part is you just call, you say, I have a concern about this bill.

You know, I Just want to register my concern about this bill. And then you can always say, I'd be happy to share my story. If you have a couple minutes and you don't have to have a long time, you don't have to, you know, prepare a PowerPoint for 30 minute discussion,

you just say, hey, I'm a mom, I live in this town. These are the concerns, Mike, we were having about the education my child received at a school. You don't even have to name where they went before or you know what, I've had a vision of educating my child at home since,

know, the day I found out I was pregnant and I found out about this beautiful relationship by being able to enroll in this public charter school and still having these educational opportunities at home.

And that's what I've wanted. So no matter what your path and story are,

it's a valid one to share. And they'll, you know, they may be busy, but they'll always listen for a few minutes and take down your information.

Rebecca: Wonderful.

Thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. And listeners, please follow through on some of those simple steps. Just being informed, making a quick phone call, sending a quick email and there's lots more information.

If you want a template, if you want some help wording things, it's, it's out there. So.

And it will be called AB84 all the way through, even when it's in the Senate. Correct. All right, so you want to track ABA 84 all the way through and reach out.

I can always help connect you if you need it as well. So thank you for joining us today. Cynthia. Thank you. Thank you for all your hard work.

Cynthia: Happy to do it. Great to chat with you.

Rebecca: Listeners. Thank you for being here today to join Cynthia, Rachel and I in this really important conversation.

And please check show notes if you're watching on YouTube, you can check down below to find links to the websites where you can keep up to date on all that's going on.

Find out where the bill is now. Even in the couple of days since Cynthia and I talked, some things have been changing. So be sure to stay up to date, stay informed about what is going on and please don't hesitate to reach out if you have questions.

Thank you again for joining me today. Today.