The Sequoia Breeze

Rebecca: Welcome, listeners, to the Sequoia Breeze Podcast, a breath of fresh air for your home school. I am your host, Rebecca LaSavio. I'm so glad that you have joined us today. Today I have Mary Stein with me, and I'm so grateful to her for being a great sport, because, listeners, we just recorded a whole podcast, and I never hit record.

Mary: It just ended up being a conversation between two friends.

Rebecca: So here we go again. And thank you, Mary, for doing this. I would love to have you introduce yourself a little bit. Well, I'll explain first. Our topic is social emotional learning. Some of you know what that is, and some of you are saying what? And from here on out, we'll mostly call it SEL because that's its little abbreviation. So tell us a little bit about who you are and your family and why you're qualified to have this conversation.

Mary: I don't know about qualified, but I'm here, and I'm happy to be here. I am a mama and I'm an HST through Sequoia Grove I have two amazing kids, a fourth grader and a second grader and an amazing husband that's a teacher like me, but teaches PE to kids with disabilities. I got into social emotional learning last year when I was going for my Master's through National University, and I really had no idea what master's degree I was going for. I thought I wanted to be a principal, and I thought, okay, no, don't love bossing people around or telling them what to do or having really hard conversations, but I love talking about feelings and connecting with people and just building those meaningful relationships. And as soon as I read the description, my husband's like, that one.

Rebecca: It's awesome when you find things that just fit, they feel right and other people can look at it and be.

Mary: Like, yeah, sparked my joy. I was like, yes, that's the one.

Rebecca: So we are talking about social emotional learning today and why that is such an important thing to include in our home school and in our parenting in general.

Mary: Yes, yes, absolutely.

Rebecca: So talk a little bit about what social emotional learning is.

Mary: Okay, so it's hard to put into words, so I kind of gleaned it from the Casel website, which is a great resource, by the way. Later on, we can talk about that one. But it's applying the knowledge, skills, and attitudes to develop healthy identities, and it's also just managing our emotions and achieving personal goals, showing others empathy and care, establishing and also maintaining those relationships. So building healthy, connected relationships and making those responsible decisions.

Rebecca: And I've been thinking about how it's called social emotional learning, not social emotional learned. The name itself doesn't lend itself to an end point so much as a process, a lifetime process, perhaps. What do you think about that?

Mary: Oh, my goodness. Birth to elderly. You need social emotional learning. It's a never ending process. We're always developing and growing in our emotions and how we handle them and how we handle them in our relationships. So it's a forever thing. You've got that right.

Rebecca: So why is it important for kids and people in general to be aware of their emotions? Why is that something worth talking about?

Mary: So as we know, when we have our morning coffee and we go about our day, we can kind of gauge how we're feeling almost immediately. That saying, getting off on the wrong side of the bed. You're kind of like, okay, this is that kind of a day. Your emotions play a vital role in your cognitive processes, your physical health, and your relationships. So it really is all encompassing. When your feelings and your emotions are on track, you know where you're at. It will affect the rest of your day, whether that's work or school or play.

Rebecca: So how can we start with our Tk and K kids? How can we help them be more aware of how they're doing that day?

Mary: Yes. So we were talking earlier when we were recording about facial expressions and body language and kind of pulling those emotion charts. You could go to Lakeshore and find a greater feelings chart that has all those facial expressions and the label underneath there's. Mood Meters by Mark Bracket. He kind of developed these amazing tools where it shows you high and low energy feeling words and negative and positive feeling words. Just giving them the actual vocabulary to talk about where they're at before anything else gets started in your day just gives you a placeholder. Okay, you're tired today. Good to know. Why are you tired? Let's talk about that. And giving them just that vocabulary to be able to label them is really impactful for the rest of your home.

Rebecca: School day and for listeners that heard my interview with Andrew Poudois a few episodes ago, we talked a lot about vocabulary in that one as well, in that if you don't have a word to describe something, it can even be hard for you to know what it is that you're thinking. It's hard to have a thought about something that you don't know exists or that you don't have a word for. So if you don't know what frustrated means, it's hard to identify that I don't feel angry, I'm feeling frustrated, or I'm disappointed. That can be a little kid not having the word to say they're disappointed. And the reality is, little kids get disappointed a lot all the time because.

Mary: They hear the no word, which makes everyone feel disappointed.

Rebecca: But I think I want to encourage listeners not to shy away from big words with your little people because they are capable of learning what those things mean. My five year old last night told me his sisters were bursting his eardrums, and that's why he was so mad at them.

Mary: That word overwhelmed like, this is just too much happening in one time at one place. Absolutely. And I mean, when I say negative emotions from anger mad. We always say mad and glad and sad and happy. But there are so many other things. I'm feeling mournful this morning. I'm feeling elated, which is such a such a it's a fun word to say. I'm feeling joyful, not just happy. I'm feeling peaceful, calm, rejuvenated. Oh, can you imagine a first grader saying rejuvenated or anticipating? Anticipating. Oh, I have anticipation. Yes. It's so much fun.

Rebecca: So what I'm hearing you say is that spending time recognizing, naming, and learning to deal with emotions is a legitimate way to spend time learning in school. That that's a reasonable part of our home school day.

Mary: Absolutely. I would start my day with it, and I would end my day with it. Your highs, your lows, your groves, and your glows, just the things that it matters. Your feelings matter. It impacts everything in your day. When we're right in our relationships, we're right with the world. And when we don't understand where we're coming from, there was this research on adults that just could not put the words to their feelings. And it's sad to think about, because as adults, we're like, oh, we got it all figured out, of course, which we know we don't secrets out. But to equip our kids now rather than later can change the whole trajectory of their lives.

Rebecca: And I'm sure there are some parents here that are listening to this, thinking, I get this. I've paid attention. I know lots of words for feelings because we tend to listen and absorb vocabulary that interests us. But if somebody started talking about engine parts, I would tune out. I don't care. I don't want to know. I don't ruin my brain for that. So there might also be those of you who are listening that maybe that's a little how you feel about the emotional aspect of life, that just get on with it, right?

Mary: Shake the dust off your feet and move forward.

Rebecca: But it might be helpful to pay more attention to some of these words and to help your kids have those words, because then instead of guessing, why are they acting weird? You can get to the root of the problem or have some really helpful and enlightening dinner conversations.

Mary: Oh, man, those conversations around the dinner table are unbelievable. We were talking just the other day, and my son was saying how this kid in his class is driving him nuts. And I'm like, well, what about him is driving you crazy? And he said, never mind. It's fine. It's fine. I'm okay. And he knew where I was getting at. I wanted him to give me real words, and I said, well, go look at that emotion chart. And he rolled his eyes. But again, it's those grow moments where he can tell me, this is really what the root of the problem was. A lot of times we surface over things. I'm good. I'm okay. Yeah, it's all right. But those really don't get to the bottom of where we're at, or you.

Rebecca: Can then figure out, so is the problem the kid? And we need to address this, or is it the problem? Your attitude.

Mary: Right.

Rebecca: You need to change how you're seen. Yeah.

Mary: And have you ever asked that other kid how they're doing, what they're going through? I have to remind myself that all the time, when I'm getting frustrated or irritated by someone, you have to take a moment and go, okay, what are they dealing with today that I can't see on the surface?

Rebecca: So this might have been about the point when I interrupted you and said, I have to recommend some books. So there are some great books that really do help with the idea of recognizing what's beneath the surface. In fact, one of the books is called Beneath by Corey Dorfeld, and they are picture books. And don't think they're only for your four year old, because they made me cry. My husband knows I'm a sucker for picture books, and when he saw these, he recognized the importance of the books that this author has written. And there's one called the Rabbit listened. And all these people are trained to help a sad boy in their own way, but the rabbit listened to what the boy needed himself. Beneath is about what's going on underneath the surface of other people in a really insightful way. And goodbye, friend. Hello, friend. And every goodbye has a hello. And some of them are small goodbyes and small hellos. And some of them are big goodbyes and good hellos. And anyway, they're really worth looking up. They're fascinating books.

Mary: I love that you brought up books because all home school teachers are book lovers, I hope. I love, love books. And there are just some amazing resources out there that are connected to what we're talking about today. Social emotional learning. For those seven habits of highly effective kids, stephen Covey came out with one for kids. He has one for teenagers, which are they're just great trait, character building books and awesome conversation starters. It's called that fancy word, bibliotherapy, which is book therapy and a fancy word. Some of the children's picture books the Invisible Boy by Trudy Lugwig, he's nearly invisible when you see him in the beginning of the book, but by the end, because he's known by others and seen finally by just one other friend, his color comes back and it just gives you goosebumps.

Rebecca: I love those kinds of books.

Mary: Oh, amazing. Ruby finds a worry. Check it out. The worry is so tiny. And then it grows and grows and grows. But again, that's a conversation with your kids saying, why did it get so big? It's because she tried to avoid it. She tried to distract herself. She tried to pretend it wasn't there, which, as we all know, that never works. Never ever, how full is your bucket? Recognizing that other people have feelings, too. That empathy piece is huge. You guys feeling connected with other people, making your life purposeful for others, and not always just talking about ourselves and how we're feeling, but sometimes it's really helpful just to focus on others and to try to help them, too, realize, oh, you're not just okay, and then one other. Okay, two others. I lied. My mouth is a volcano. Unbelievable book about sibling rivalry and kind of walking through that strong negative emotion of anger. And she's ferocious in this book, but in the end, she finds her calm, she finds her peace. And just providing these books give kids tools to know, okay, if I'm at this level, what can I do to get to a lower level of energy and a more positive state of mind? And then lastly, enemy pie by Derek Munson is amazing. And it's just how to turn an enemy into a friend? Which I think we all deal with that in our adulthood. And in our childhood, we remember those people that initially we thought, oh, they rubbed me the wrong way. Everything about them drives me crazy. But at the end, there's always something to find that you have in common. And to get to know somebody, to truly get to know them, you start to love them.

Rebecca: So listeners, go find books, go to.

Mary: The library, add them to your part right now.

Rebecca: And these kinds of books are never only for small children. Just because they have pictures in them doesn't mean they're for small children. And often the little kids can't understand the symbolism that's going on in the pictures, even. And I found that if they're really well written, you'll find new things each time you read it.

Mary: I've had noticed before, yes.

Rebecca: So let's talk a little bit about how a child's emotional state and academic preparedness is connected.

Mary: So there was this giant research when I was going to school about the return rate of investing in social emotional learning. And so, yes, it absolutely goes hand in hand, because when our feelings are in check, we know where we are, people know where we are. We're not just in our heads by ourselves dealing with something. Our academics, our physiological responses are so much more positive. So there was this eleven to one return rate when schools have started to invest in social emotional learning. Kids are doing better, suspension rates are lower, behavioral issues are minimalized, and there's relationships that are being built among students because they are talking about how they're doing and what they're dealing with. And there's nothing like having someone else understand you. And to say, I'm walking through that too. Let's talk about that. Because we forget that not one person at one time is only dealing with this one thing.

Rebecca: And it seems if you look around at the world that teens especially are dealing with loneliness on a different level than maybe in the past, and often technology is blamed for that. But ultimately, what technology is creating is a sense of not being known, I would think, and focusing on some of these social emotional issues, giving kids vocabulary to hear, helping parents know how to ask good questions, would, in theory, I would think, create a much stronger connection.

Mary: Absolutely. And when we're vulnerable, check out Brene Brown's podcast. The power of vulnerability. It brings tears to my eyes every time because there is nothing like feeling connected. We long for being connected and understood, and shame is a big thing too. We're afraid. We feel shame to tell people what's really going on behind the mask. But as parents, coming back to that, as a home school parent, we have the benefit of having our kids home and creating an opportunity to be in relationship with them, to model what it's like to love others and to love others really well. And that really is providing opportunities to connect with them. What are you doing? What are you going through?

Rebecca: I went through that, but then also being able to respond in a way to their negative emotions, that invites continued conversation, right?

Mary: Yes.

Rebecca: When we are the homeschool parent, if they have negative feelings about school, it can feel really personal.

Mary: Yes. A personal attack on your character and who you are as a teacher. Because what, homeschool parent doesn't feel inadequate, right? Oh, my goodness. Pretty much on a day to day basis, I'm like, wow, I nailed that. But wow, I flunked that area of our home school day.

Rebecca: So parents, if you feel inadequate, don't think you're the only one.

Mary: It's me too.

Rebecca: It's all of us. It really is. It's a big responsibility.

Mary: It's huge.

Rebecca: But we have to then control our own reactions to when our kids express disappointment or frustration or tiredness or whatever to something we've set up for them, right?

Mary: Absolutely. It feels super personal, as you think. I created this lesson plan for you. We picked this curriculum out together. This is something we do as a family. And when they say, this stinks and you're not doing what I think you should be doing and you're not up to par, it feels like you're being evaluated and it's super hurtful. But that's that pause thing. I was reading a blog about a home school mama and she physically wrote like a pause symbol on her wrist. And she said in her blog, I'm definitely getting this tattooed someday. And I thought, well, I don't know if I'll go that far. But she said, I will touch my wrists and I push this button. Let's say it's even invisible. I even tried this the other day. And just take a moment to pause. In today's culture, we're so ready to respond quickly, accurately, as fast as possible to sound intelligible and I don't know beyond wisdom. But if we just take a moment because we know we're not ready to respond in a healthy, conductive way. Just can really de escalate something that might have gone to an explosive level. Walking away is okay, too, but telling them what you're doing, there's nothing more negative to somebody when you're like, hey, I was talking, and the other person's walking away, you're like, hey, I matter, too. But just taking a moment to yourself, breathing. Let's just take a deep breath right now. Having that time to reflect on how much you love your child before you want to get back at them because they're being so mean and nasty can change everything, and it can change the way they see you and the way they see your relationship, adult to child and young adult, adult.

Rebecca: And I think sometimes kids have a hard time remembering that what they say and do affects their parents.

Mary: Yes.

Rebecca: Emotions like, you're just you you're just an adult. You're fine.

Mary: Right? They don't realize that we have the.

Rebecca: Capability of they can hurt us.

Mary: That's a big problem more than anybody else. I mean, on top of our spouses, you think our kids it's so personal because in the home school realm, we put everything and anything to our children because we desperately love them and what was best for them.

Rebecca: So let's go back a little bit and work our way through the stages. You know, kind of starting with those those tk and cares and moving up through the stages, because essentially what we're talking about is character building. And how can we help our kids between managing themselves but also being aware of those around them? Build a solid character through those stages.

Mary: Oh, man. Character building and social emotional learning go hand in hand. Something that I've been using as a tool to kind of teach me to help my kids is there's this great SEL curriculum that's free out there. It's Harmony sel.org, and you can go on there, and you could actually glean and take whatever you want, but it has actual lessons for you to walk through with your kids, because not all of us have these amazing ideas in our head. And so, like most good homeschool mamas, we go out there and we glean what we can and we take and make it to fit our family unit. So just making it intentional finding these resources, these books, these ideas that fit our kids and our family to get them, it's really about the vocabulary and that relationship with them. It's brass tax. It's not really a magical equation. It's sitting down and connecting with our kids before we jump into everything else.

Rebecca: And what were those five things that the Castle Five that you were telling us about that can yes.

Mary: So that's the self awareness, self management, responsible decision making, relationship skills, and social.

Rebecca: Awareness and what those look like for a five year old and what they look like for a 14 year old is very different.

Mary: So different. Yes. So I've used that tool online, that Harmony website, because it actually is completely divided by age appropriateness grade level Glean, and take what you can because not everything is perfect. Like, no curriculum ever meets everything we ever wanted, but it has great starting points for you. There's one that's called the human Bingo, and you walk around and you ask different family members questions about them, and it kind of takes us outside of ourselves and puts us in other people's shoes and understanding like, oh, that's what you enjoy more. Okay. Even simple things. Do you prefer ice cream over cake? Getting to know each other in a silly fun way, but just getting to talk about it too, it can really get you started in your day. Ice cream every time. I'm like 100%. Why are we even talking about this?

Rebecca: I also want to touch on I think some of us can be a little skeptical when we start talking about social emotional learning because there's a fear that it's just all talk and we're focusing on the emotions and by golly, we've got life to live, so let's get out there. So we're not talking about we're just going to sit around and talk about life. And if you're too sad, then you don't have to do school today.

Mary: Right.

Rebecca: We're talking about taking a temperature, being aware so that we can do life.

Mary: Yes, we're trying to set up for success so we can have a great school day. But you're right, we can't spend the entire day or even be distracted when something's hard because we know as adults, you have to fight through those tough spots. You have to have that grit, that perseverance, that knowing that at the end, I will get through this, it's going to be okay, and teaching them that growth mindset of tough things are tough, but we can get through this.

Rebecca: And the difference between I'm sorry your braces hurt. I know it's distracting. I'll make you a smoothie for lunch, but you still need to get your math done.

Mary: Absolutely.

Rebecca: And our favorite dog died yesterday, and we need to take a day and do something to process that as a family or a loved one has died or our community is going through something awful. There are moments when those breaks need to happen. And as parents, hopefully we have the wisdom to interpret the difference. And sometimes those breaks don't need to last forever because getting back into routine.

Mary: Can be a welcome distraction. Absolutely. Because we know life's full of those hills and valleys, those dry seasons and those really great seasons of, wow, we accomplished so much today. And then there's those days where you don't get a ton done, but you still need to get something done. Of course. But you're right. It just depends on the gravity of the situation. If it's a really heavy one, allow yourself give yourself permission to feel with your kids, grab that book and just lay down together and connect and build that meaningful time with one another.

Rebecca: And we were talking earlier about how sometimes which subjects we do can be affected, how you go through your day. So maybe if you're a really sad day, we're going to do art and music because those are things that match our emotions better, that piece of our brain can handle. We were also talking about that maybe we do science, but then we give our brain a break by hitting the music.

Mary: Yes. And we know consistency is key with kids. They love to know what's coming at them. Surprises aren't always the best. We love surprises, even as adults, but sometimes it's not welcomed. And we're like, no, I'm not ready to switch to that right now. I want to do what we always do. But yes, giving yourself the ability to switch it up, starting with art. You can do so much with art, and it doesn't even need to be necessarily emotion related. You can be studying monet, but having a great time, just being in quiet peace with one another and then moving to math and then maybe I love the idea of going back to music and dance. I love the resources we have in homeschooling. It's boundless, it's endless. We have an opportunity to really make schooling tailored to fit our kids'identities and.

Rebecca: The ever neglected homeschool subject of PE.

Mary: So glad you mentioned PE. This is what my husband talks about constantly. He's like, Mary, yes, emotions matter, but what about the physiological effect of exercise again? I mean, we've had some hard hits in our family where we've dealt with family deaths and animal deaths and divorces in our close relationships, breaking and crumbling. So my husband would tell me, when we're in those really low valleys, PE can be the way to get us back on track, to get us back into a space of feeling calm and peace. Because the storms, they rage. We know that everybody has them, and it's pretty consistent. You're either going into a storm, you're in the middle of one, or you're coming out of one wherever you're at that physical fitness piece. PE is so neglected in home school, but it is pivotal to keep our kids in a healthy mindset for their day.

Rebecca: I have one kid that every once in a while I'll tell him, go run a mile. And he'll complain and fuss, but he comes back so happy. I'm so glad you made me do that, mom. I feel so much better. Can I do it again tomorrow?

Mary: It's that endorphin high.

Rebecca: I accomplished this, and we definitely don't do this very often, but last fall, we drew a great big four square thing out in our street and got a bouncy ball. And to have mom come out and play with them, they just loved. They would do it for recess. Their friends would come over after school, and they play. But the break from the pressure to perform, the break from sometimes that can lead to its own sibling fights. But often they're not as bad when they're outside running around, and so it can just shift gears. Absolutely.

Mary: And often we say, like, go outside and play. But then they're not getting to learn that social piece, too, with you helping them kind of a little handholding. Even in high school, they still need just that model of how to interact with others in a healthy way and even just interacting in a family unit. I see my kids fighting, and I intervene, and we pause and we go, hey, so that was super offensive. You hit your sister in the face with the ball. So what do we need to say? Because they don't have those tools immediately. I have a teenager in my life, and when I talk to her about certain things, I'm shocked at what she will say and do to her parents. And I'm like, hey, do you think that affects them, too? Do you think that's something they wanted to hear you say? How would you feel if you were them? And often we forget to think about that. How would I feel if I were that person? So, yes, that physical activity, getting out there with your kids, turn your phones off, make that eye connection. Oh, there's nothing like taking a moment and just looking into each other's eyes and just saying, I love you. And I mean, that's what we're here for. That's why we do what we do.

Rebecca: My grandpa, before he passed, would often tell us he had all these little tidbits about life, and one of them was to grab a small child's face and look them in the eye and say, you are an unmitigated delight. He said, they won't understand your words, but they'll understand your meaning. It's such a neat there's just so much wisdom in that, whether we use those words or not, like, 100%. I'm looking at you, kid, and I.

Mary: Like you, and I love you. I love that. And you're right. It's not always words. They are watching us. Our actions speak so loudly as we model to them what an adult looks like, and sometimes we mess up. But again, that's a great opportunity to say, I'm imperfect like you, and I'm still a work in progress.

Rebecca: And parents, if nobody ever told you you were an unmitigated delight, you have the chance to turn around and fix that mistake with your kids. You don't have to recognize that in yourself and deal with that, but turn around and change that. Break that chain and change that with your own kids.

Mary: Yes. Change that family tree.

Rebecca: Yeah. I have so much respect for chain.

Mary: Breakers oh, my goodness.

Rebecca: Who change how their family is from how they grew up.

Mary: So much respect because we all have dysfunction. We all are imperfect, but it doesn't. Mean, we need to repeat history. It sometimes isn't worthy of being repeated.

Rebecca: Yeah. And sometimes parents need to find a way to fill their own buckets.

Mary: Yes. You're a delight, you're amazing, and you've got what it takes. If I can look into your eyes today, I would tell you, you have what it takes. You are equipped to do this. You were born to do this. Those are your kiddos. They were given to you, and you have a purpose. And they might not know that, but we know that.

Rebecca: And a bad day doesn't mean a bad job.

Mary: That's right.

Rebecca: Because sometimes those things are out of your control. When I worked in the classroom, I.

Mary: Would walk away some days crying and thinking, oh, you failed as a teacher and educator and you're not good enough for this. But the next day you come back to that drawing table and you say, okay, I've had a moment to reflect, and this is what I'm going to do different today.

Rebecca: And sometimes the best days we have are when I maybe get up just a few minutes early, spend a little time thinking and praying, and I can even anticipate. I know the kids are probably going to fuss about this or fight about this, and I'm ready for that calm response. And unfortunately, it's not yet master.

Mary: Right.

Rebecca: I wish that were every day, and it's not, but it's like, okay, we may or may not succeed in air quotes at school today, but I think maybe we can succeed with each other.

Mary: Yes. And having that butter journal, like you said, taking a moment and writing down just a few things that you're grateful for, as simple as I'm grateful for toast. It doesn't need to be anything fancy, but it gets you in that mindset of thankfulness, gratefulness selflessness and just gets you in a mindset of great attitude for your day and teach your kids that. Yeah.

Rebecca: And if people started out with bad attitudes but were able to recover, that's something.

Mary: Resiliency is huge.

Rebecca: So actually, I'm glad you said that word because that was something I really did want to talk to you about. I think that is a really important word and not a word we always.

Mary: Use a lot.

Rebecca: Because I also wanted to go back. We're not talking about just taking emotional temperatures every morning and then wallowing in that, but we're being able to do hard things despite how we might be feeling or what circumstances might be. Talk a little bit about the definition of resilience, if you can, and why that's a goal.

Mary: Picking ourselves up when we're kicked down time and time again. I always go back to literature. It's the stories we've seen, it's the movies we watch. What we put in comes out. So being very again, that word intentional. I say it a lot because it really does matter. We're teaching our kids how to push through tough things, difficult situations, and we're modeling it too, but talking about what those things might be. Math's really hard. But can we stop doing math? Absolutely not. Writing is the worst, but we can't stop writing. And the reason is because if you don't do writing, you won't be able to do reading. And if you can't do reading, you can't do math. And they need to know why. It's important to have that resilience set mindset and to know that hard things come and go for every single one of us. We're not perfect. We're not born equipped with all the same tools. And it could be really frustrating even as an adult when you look at somebody and go, why is that so easy for them but so difficult for me?

Rebecca: I think COVID brought resilience to the surface. Like who's resilient and who isn't? Or in what ways are we as a culture resilient? In what ways are we not? Because toilet paper kind of pushed us over the edge. But if we can't deal with the inconvenience of toilet paper is a little hard to find right now.

Mary: As simple as that, right?

Rebecca: There are bigger things in life that we do need to be able to deal with. And I do also know my overseas living, that sometimes the bigger things we will put up with. And it's the little things like toilet.

Mary: Paper that really pushed us, push us over the edge.

Rebecca: And it's kind of this weird balance of like we use all of our resources for the big stuff so then the little stuff can get to us. But there is still something to be said for being able to take a deep breath and reevaluate a situation and move on, even if we've been knocked down or been set back. But that's complicated.

Mary: It is so complicated. I haven't mastered it. I have to step back and try to get a different look on it, a different perspective. Looking myself in the mirror sometimes and going, is this that big of a deal? And almost saying that in front of my kids, saying it out loud, modeling that inner thinking is huge. Just telling them, I think about that too sometimes I wonder, this is bothering me and I have to work through it. I have a hard day at work and I'm not afraid to tell my kids. Today is hard for me because of this.

Rebecca: And I think, too, resilience is the long game. So when we're trying to help our five year old deal with the disappointment of, sorry your Amazon shipment didn't come today, we all hate that. I know you were looking forward to that new thing today, but it didn't show up. It's just a one day wait. So we aren't just dealing with a bad attitude in the moment. We are equipping this child to deal with a much bigger disappointment.

Mary: Yes. As a long run, keeping the littles little and the bigs big and trying to get them to measure those things too. Saying, okay, do you think that's really as big as it is? Is this that important that it's ruining your day? Right?

Rebecca: Yeah. My dad always used to say, don't sweat the small stuff. I'm a little on the dramatic side, so I was never a big fan of that.

Mary: Right. Or like, take a bite. One bite of the elephant at a time. I used to hate that saying. But really going back to school and thinking about all the paperwork I have to do, all the essays, I was so overwhelmed and mortified by not remembering how to even write an essay as a parent. And as an adult, I'm like, oh, what's APA format? What's in La format?

Rebecca: I'm so lost.

Mary: But remembering to put into perspective, I still have to do this daily. Your bigs are bigs. Your smalls are smalls. One bite of the elephant at a time. And this is the same thing in our home school day. One thing at a time. Sometimes we have to take that mindset break and just go, okay, we'll come back to this, guys. This was really hard. I'm proud of us for getting to this stage in our science project. We'll come back to it, though.

Rebecca: So would you agree that all of these little conversations that are had throughout the day, day to day, would hopefully build a family culture that's capable of hard conversations when our kids are bigger?

Mary: Absolutely. These starting out from and it's never too late. I should say that too. If you have a high schooler and you're like, oh, we are not capable of having a small conversation, let alone a meaningful one. It's never too late to model that, to be humble in front of them, to ask forgiveness for, hey, I'm really sorry I haven't been a genuine, sincere listener, and I really want to practice that with you. And just using again, those books that we love, literature, getting those conversations started. If it's not organic right away, that's okay. It will become organic as your family changes into one that is willing to have those hard conversations, those awkward conversations, and answering those questions that we might not want to answer, but also to remember pausing that we don't have to answer right away if we don't know. I don't know, I think is a scary thing for us to say, but we should all be okay to say that I don't know yet. Let me figure that out and I.

Rebecca: Don'T know, and I'm sorry. And being vulnerable and all of those things feel like weakness.

Mary: Yes.

Rebecca: But when it comes to relationships with our kids, they're actually strength building strength.

Mary: Absolutely.

Rebecca: They well, I think we've covered a lot of ground. Is there anything else? I mean, we could obviously you got your masters in the subject. There's lots to talk about.

Mary: It's unending and it's a never ending process.

Rebecca: But are there any last things that you would like to make sure parents go away with.

Mary: Continue talking. Never stop. Model those relationships. If you have those friendships around you, be okay to talk to your friend in front of them so they can see that interaction and just love yourself too. Self care is huge, and it's going for that walk and getting a new perspective because what you're doing is so hard. Homeschooling is not for the faint at heart. It's exhausting, it's grueling, but it is worth it. And you have what it takes. So just continue to do what you do because you're doing it well as much as you feel like you're failing. And just thank you so much for allowing me to talk about this.

Rebecca: Thank you so much, Mary, for being here. It's really been a delightful conversation.

Mary: Twice. Twice.

Rebecca: Thank you for being willing to flex with that.

Mary: And so graceful. Thanks, everybody. Whoa.

Rebecca: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Sequoia Breeze.

Mary: Today.

Rebecca: Listeners, I've been your host, Rebecca LaSavio. I would love to hear how you practice social emotional learning at your house. Send me an email at podcasts@sequoiagrove.org but.