Rebecca: Welcome to the Sequoia Breeze Podcast, a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I am your host, Rebecca La Savio.
Thank you for joining us today.
Welcome, listeners. I'm so excited that today I have Dennis DeNoia joining me. And you might not recognize that name, but you might recognize the name Mr. D.
So welcome, Mr. D. It's so great to have you here today.
Dennis: Thanks, Rebecca. I'm super excited to be here with everybody.
Rebecca: So introduce us a little bit, tell us who you are. Some people are like, oh, I know who that is. And others may not be as familiar. So introduce us to you.
Dennis: Absolutely, yeah. It's funny, I go out and I'm doing a presentation somewhere and I always ask people,
I know how many people, you know who I am? And it's usually about half the room, right? And then the ones that don't,
and, you know, I always tell them, well, here we go, we have something in common. We don't know each other for the ones that don't know. So.
All right, well, kind of my background is I've been in education for a long time. I, I was a classroom teacher. I started in 1988. So,
you know, we're just rolling here 35 plus years and here we are.
And then I left the school system, the public school system. I was in Florida and really got introduced. Well,
here's the way, best way to say that, you know, when you're a public school teacher in Florida. I don't know about other states, but in Florida, one of the things that we always have to worry about is income.
Right. And so,
you know, I'll tell people, it's like, you know, as a classroom teacher, we all had that thing at 3 o', clock, we were all off to our second jobs. And so my second job was math tutoring.
And so I was doing a lot of tutoring.
And as going through that, when 2005 came, it was time to leave the school system for me. But as at that point, I had started to work with and meet homeschool students and with the homeschoolers, I was doing tutoring with them.
And we had a mom one day said to me, she said, look, she goes, you're so good at this.
She said, why aren't, why don't you have your own curriculum? And I thought about that and I thought, that's a really good question.
And it was something I always wanted to do. And I thought, okay, let's get started there. So as Mr. D. Math got created,
it was in, you know, intentionally, it was designed for the homeschoolers.
And then we, in 2000, I think 2012, 2013, I met the first charter school that we got to work with. And so we've been working with the charter schools for 10 plus years.
And it works out great because the charter school kids are in that space where they're working at home and it's that individualized learning. So it was a perfect fit for what we already had and what we do.
And here we are. So, you know, thousands of videos later and many, many, many course, you know, coursework, problems and solutions and quizzes and here we are today. So that's been kind of my background.
You know, I was as a classroom teacher.
I always tell people this too because, you know, I do, I have a master's degree in education. And I, when I was getting the master's degree, I looked at the syllabus or Sylvia or the, you know, the description of what it was going to take for what degree program you wanted to do.
And so it was like, well, I could do math,
right? And I started looking at all the courses I was going to take and all the homework there was going to be. And I thought, man, that just looks like a lot of work.
And then there was this program in counseling, so it was all about psychology and counseling. And I thought, man, let's see, I'm going to learn about people, learn about how they think, their learning styles,
and I'm going to talk about my feelings and write papers. I was like, I want to do that, right? So that was my graduate work was actually in counseling and psychology,
which has made a huge difference when it came to creating curriculum. So that I actually finished that back in 1993. So getting and taking that and then bringing it into creating curriculum made a difference because I was always looking at what are kids experiencing, where are they thinking from and what are they,
how do they learn and how can we incorporate that so that we're reaching everybody as well as we can, you know, in addition to creating great content. So that was all on purpose.
And thankfully it was all because I didn't want to do the homework and all that extra master's program, right.
Rebecca: So it's called, your website is called Mr. D Math, but there's a lot more on there.
Dennis: There is. And that was really kind of a funny how this has happened. We found the,
the learning management system, they call it LMS in, in my world.
And when we first, first started was just our math classes and then I was working with a co op in Tampa, Florida. And so I was road warrior for a long time and driving to all the different cities and doing the math classes and as we were growing.
But one of my students was also doing American Sign Language at the co op.
And so she said, she goes, look, I'm going to college. This is what I'm going to be doing. This is my, my life passion.
And she was doing the ASL classes and she said,
I really need a place to put my videos. And I thought, well, we can put them on our site. So we originally did it for the co op kids. Well, the co op kids liked it so much,
we thought, let's keep going with this. And so our ASL program has been,
you know, behind the math class is probably our most popular courses that we have. And then it was like, well, wow, we could actually go out and find more people.
And so we've added things like digital music production. And with the ASL classes, a, we have two. They come from the homeschool world and they had a background in ela, so they wanted to do a grammar class and a composition class and a study skills class.
So we've been adding courses on. But the people that we find that come to us have that homeschooling background.
And so that's been, you know, so either they're a parent that we've worked with in the past or as with asl, was a former student. I think I met this girl when she was like 12, you know, now she's married and has a baby and she's, you know, created all her classes.
So it's been fun because we're like, we grow. But it's kind of a family style growing. It's people that have come from our system. They know how we do things.
And so, yeah, it's been really great. But yeah, so we do, we do more than math and we're still looking.
We have a. Another parent and he's working on a physics class for us. And we've been asked about science and when we're going to get that done. And so he's in the process of recording the videos and creating the labs and everything that goes into that.
And he's retired.
Let's see. I think he was a naval. I think he was in the Navy, but he was an officer and he just retired from the military. And he goes, I got this time on my hands.
And he said, I'd really like to create this. But he was teaching physics to,
in the, in the academy he worked at. And I was like, well, that's awesome, man. So we're in the process of that, and one of our other staff members is working on the Spanish class.
And so it's just fun.
Rebecca: Nice that. That will add a lot. And you've got. I just was even seeing several technology classes, and there's all kinds of stuff.
Dennis: Yep. It's great.
Rebecca: Your economics course caught my eye. Cause I have a senior in high school who's.
Dennis: And that's the mom of the ASL person.
Rebecca: Oh, how interesting. That's awesome.
Dennis: Yeah.
Rebecca: So one of the courses that I want to talk about with you today is your conquer the CASP test.
So, listeners, we. I've invited Mr. D here because he not only knows so much about math and teaching kids and all of that, but he has also created these Conquer the CASP test prep courses,
and he's writing a new book, which we'll get to in a minute. So first, tell us about the Conquer the casp. And you're in Florida, but you did this California state testing.
Dennis: Yeah, well, here. Here's. I'm actually. Right now. I moved out, moved our company headquarters from Florida. Gosh, almost seven years ago now. I'm actually in Puerto Rico.
And so I've been in Puerto Rico now. But over 10 years ago, we made a homeschool family decision, and we moved to Spain.
And so I've been out of the. Out of the States, so to speak. I'm still in the US Being in Puerto Rico, but I've been out of the States really, for over 10 years now.
And what's been great about that, we homeschooled our kids. They grew up in Madrid, and they're just. Their lives are flourishing. They're, you know, got one daughter in college, and my son, who's 20,
is a professional flamenco dancer.
Right. And so he's in the National Ballet of Madrid and touring.
Just, you know, just having this, like, ridiculous life.
So. Yeah. But my roots are in Florida. And what happened with Conquer the CASP and why we did it for California specifically was that we were working with the charter schools.
And one of the.
It was. This was years ago, and we were. I was at a meeting, and it came up about test scores. And I realized that as a homeschool curriculum provider, we don't focus on standardized test prep.
Like, we've always done SAT prep and ACT prep. And of course, in. When I was a classroom teacher, we had to do the Florida test, whatever that was. It's changed over the years from here to here.
Which one?
But as going through all that,
it was A background that I had and, and had great results as a classroom teacher. We have great results in our SAT prep. And when I realized that our curriculum really didn't focus on standardized testing as much as it should or needed to, specifically for California,
because our charter school students have to take the CASP test at the end of the year. So I asked them, I said, well, what do you think if we, you know, if we build this course?
And they were like, oh my gosh, can you have it tomorrow? It was really kind of how we started.
So the, the test prep program started,
oh my gosh, let's see, probably seven or eight years ago is when we first launched it. We started out, said, well, let's pilot this. And so we had about six or seven schools that came in.
Each did a grade level and we kind of checked in and we did, we did it as a live six week test prep. Like we, similar to what we do in our sat, we call it a boot camp, right?
And so we thought, well, let's do with the kids. Well, what we noticed is that they would come to the first session and they loved it and a good part of them would come to the second session.
But then it looked like a gym membership, right? It's like, you know, you get the gym membership and all of a sudden it's like, well, it's a really good idea, but oh, I don't want to come to the third session.
So we started to see that the kids weren't coming as, as much as we wanted them to. And so we started asking them, well, what would, what would make a difference for you?
And they said, well, if we had it in smaller chunks and it could be something I could do on my own at my own pace. And I thought, okay, well, not a problem.
So we went back and redid everything and recorded videos that were much shorter in length and you know, eight to 12 minutes that a kid would watch a video. We give them some practice problems to do and then we would have them go in and they could work on,
work on the practice problems and we could give them a quiz as well.
And the kids really started to enjoy that as we put together the courses and we started to find out the kids were really liking it. Well, then it was like, well, what about ELA and the language arts side of things?
And so I went to another homeschool company, they're called Right at Home, and I said, you guys, what do you think about building the test prep course for language arts?
And I'll show you what we do and how we do it and can you do something similar? And so they did all of the.
All the work on the ELA side of things so that we could cover both. And all the grade levels from grades three up through eight and then grade 11.
And it was great. The kids have. They've enjoyed it. The participation went up,
and then we realized there was still a piece missing because we wanted to get. How do we get the kids engaged so that they're doing the course? But it's fun.
And so we decided to go in. Inside of our LMS system, the learning management system,
we had the. The ability to gamify the course.
And so gamification means in our world, oftentimes people think, oh, it's a game. Like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, like, you know, I'm running here and running there. Really wasn't that.
It was set up where we were doing points and badges and awards and levels and, you know, all the different things that's similar. Like if you do, like, dual lingo, you know, like, you're learning that language, right?
So it's a little bit. Little bit more like that. Leaderboards and everything.
And so when we gamified it, we. What we found at the end of the year was the results of the kids had skyrocketed in terms of their.
What they were getting when they scored on the cash test. And we thought, wow, this is, like, really great.
So we actually took that gamification process, we added it to our math classes, and we're seeing our math classes this year. And the kids come back, but what they tell us is they're.
There's. You know, we get back from the kids on the Conquer the casp, and they're like, oh, my gosh, I love this. I love this course.
They never tell us that they love the course because of everything that they're learning. What they tell us is, I love that I get a badge and these. And we hired a cartoonist to make these custom cool characters.
And so we wanted it to be fun for them where that they were learning, but they saw some reward in it for them by doing the work. So that was the gamification piece and where we saw the real.
You know, we saw the real boost in their test scores, and it had gone up quite a bit. Even the person that ran the statistics, he's like, I've never seen anything like this.
The jump like that from one year to the next. And so I was like, awesome. So that's kind of the. The birth of Conquer the Casp and we're always looking at what can we do next to make the student experience be the best it can be.
Rebecca: And students don't have to be using Mr. D math to have success and enjoy conquer the CASP.
Dennis: Right,
exactly. We, we did take some things because, you know, one, one of the things like an eighth grader, they're doing their math class for the year, and if they take the test in March, what you've got that,
you know, April and May, the rest of the school year that maybe haven't got to that content yet.
So we put in the system and we put a. What we call just that, like extra practice or supplemental materials where kids can go in. Especially our high school kids, you know, they haven't seen geometry in a couple years.
Right. Or something that they're just not working on as an 11th grader. And so we added. Pulled things in from our math courses in for kids that either they didn't.
Didn't make sense to them when they did it, or they haven't seen it yet.
And so we had some extra supplemental materials that they can practice with if they want to do that. And it's totally optional to them and available.
But absolutely, we, we wanted it to be a course they could do that would be supplemental to whatever math course they're doing or whatever ELA course they're doing.
Rebecca: And there's so many different homeschool math courses out there that there are a lot of them don't speak standardized test like that's not how they're teaching. So in taking the Conquer the CASP course, you can transfer what you know into what to expect when you see this test so that you aren't sitting there confused by the question for a skill you do have.
You just maybe haven't seen it in that shape before. Is that fair?
Dennis: That's a very fair, very accurate and fair way to say that.
And you know, we tell the kids, it's like we want this to be. We're focused on the CASP program. So the CASP test.
But really what we're working with kids on is, is how to prepare for a test and strategies when you're taking a standardized test. So the strategies you can use anywhere.
So it doesn't have to just be for the casp, but we focused on the CASP because that's the test they were going to take.
Rebecca: Have you seen kids, I mean, they're enjoying the course, but have you seen their confidence go up going into the testing?
Dennis: Absolutely. And that was. And we hear that more from the charter school teachers that we work with and from the parents, the kids are just. They do their thing, right? But what we're hearing from them, and we hear from some of the students, too, and what we keep hearing back from them is,
I was ready to take the test. I felt comfortable when I was going to take the test.
And we realized that one.
Yes, we know. We kind of, you know, like when you see the commercials and they're talking about some pharmaceutical product that's out there and they give you all the side effects that are usually really bad.
Right.
So we really started focusing this year on letting families know. What we're really supporting kids with is having them be less anxious when it comes time to take the test.
And how do you reduce test anxiety? Because so many kids deal with that, and a lot of parents don't want them to take the test because they know their kids deal with that.
Right. So they're like, anything we could do to have them not take the test. And so we thought, well, what if we actually could show you that what this is doing is bringing down that fear, bringing down the anxiety,
and at the same time getting them ready. Our side effect is their scores are going to go up. Right. So that's what we tell them. It's like, well, here's why you can expect your scores are going to go up.
But really what we're focused on is having them feel comfortable, ready, confident when they go in to take the test and that they can take the skills and apply them to anywhere in their academic world or beyond.
Rebecca: Or taking a driver's license test.
Dennis: Exactly, exactly.
Rebecca: Because there are those. Those tests in real life that we still have to deal with sometimes.
Dennis: They're not going away.
Rebecca: So let's use that as a bridge. I know you've already written a couple of books, but I hear you're in the process of writing a new one. Tell us about that.
Dennis: Yeah. So the book is called Right Now. This is the title right now. So I hired a publisher and so there.
We'll see when we get to the title. But we actually call it the Student Becomes the Teacher. And it really is all about test anxiety and it's about confidence in taking tests.
That's where we wanted to get to with it.
And when I first started working on the book, I was doing research, you know, and I wanted to see, well, you know, things that are out there already. Why of the things that I noticed is that most test prep,
when we talk about test prep, or that you're reducing test anxiety, they tend to go in two directions where they're not joined together. So what I mean by that is that you might see something that,
to work on test anxiety, do a lot of practice with breathing techniques and different things. You can do that either to get you ready for the test or while you're taking the test with so many kids just kind of blank out in the middle of the test.
But the thing that I noticed was that you can focus on that, but what about preparing for the test itself?
And those weren't in, you know, kind of like entwined or ingrained together. And so when I, when I was creating the book, the book is really about not only test preparation, test prep, strategies about how to take tests, but then what to do in the middle of the test to calm yourself down.
And what do you need to do?
Rebecca: I hear your math and psychology background.
Dennis: Right, right.
Rebecca: So why did you. I mean, you already had created the courses to help kids go in confidently. Why did you decide to add a book to that? What made you decide to do all that work?
Dennis: Well,
that's funny. There's. There's two parts to that. So one, you know, we reached out to schools and, you know, when people hear, you know, they, you know, you're. We're just another test prep program.
Right. And we wanted to figure out a way how could we get people to find out about what we're doing and how it makes a difference.
And so part of it is that we can take the book and send it out to schools and be able to say, hey, we want you to have a copy of this book, by the way, we've got this test prep program.
So a little bit of it's marketing. Right. But the second part, for me, that's really the most important part is that oftentimes,
you know, people don't know unless you do the course, that where we're focused on is how to reduce test anxiety.
And so the idea of the book is to have people kind of like take that fear away. You know, the fear. It. It's kind of funny. It's almost like an anxiety about test anxiety.
So we want to take the fear away about the fear. Right. And so the book is really written. It's written as a conversational kind of book. So it's kind of like we're just chatting, you know, almost like a coaching, you know, conversational kind of book.
But it's really done in a way that we want people, when they read it, is to say, well, I don't have to be afraid of tests. And then Depending on what test you're taking, how can you find the best product for the kind of test you're going to take?
For us, if it's a CASP test, we love the product that we have, but kids are going to take other tests too. So the book is designed really to be kind of a catch all to the world of let's take the fear away from the fear, and now let's deal with the fear that you're dealing with around test anxiety.
Rebecca: So I have two questions for you, but I have a hunch their answers are intertwined. So I'm going to ask them at the same time.
Dennis: Okay.
Rebecca: One is, why do you think students struggle with testing anxiety so much? And secondly, what role do parents play in either creating that anxiety or diffusing?
Dennis: It's really, that's a, it's a great question. And they actually fit together really well. So I'll start with the second one with the parents. And, and I think that one of the things, and we hear this, you know,
most parents have dealt with this as well,
and they either have their own version of it and oftentimes because they have a version of it and you know, their,
their sole purpose is to make sure their kids are safe, you know, that they want to make sure that, that kids don't deal with the things that frustrate them and have them feel bad about themselves.
And so I think some of it from a parent is that a parent's looking at it like, well, I dealt with this and I don't want you to deal with that.
And so we really want to ease that pain. And there, you know, I know when I was, when I was growing up, nobody talked about it. It wasn't a thing about.
Do you have testing? It wasn't even a thing. I don't even think there was a thing called test anxiety. Now a little bit older, right? So, you know, this is back in the, you know, 70s and 80s, right?
And looking back then, and I actually graduated from high school in 1980, nobody talked about test anxiety. It wasn't even a, you know, a thing then. But I think that for parents, if they noticed that, they dealt with it and it was never talked about, never addressed that.
It's just in the background. And because it's in the background, whether they know it or not, they still end up kind of like bringing that to the young person. Like, I don't want them to deal with what I dealt with.
And so there's that test avoidance.
So that's the first, the first piece of it. And, you know, for young people, it's crazy, but the research shows in anywhere from 25 to 40% of kids deal with some kind of test anxiety, whatever it might be.
And so in the book, I've been doing interviews with students, with teachers, with parents,
and finding out, well, what's it like for you? And there's so many things they have in common, you know, and it's just. It's funny, but even I have a niece.
She's. I think she's 19 now, but she's a sophomore in college.
And I just. I asked her, I said, so, you know, what's it like? She goes, I just cry. And I said, you cry in the test? She says, yeah.
I said, well, does anybody see you? Goes, no, I just put my face down, you know. She says, but I cry. And I said, well, tell me about that. So we kind of.
Then we started looking at strategies, and she goes, oh, I could do that. You know, so it was just kind of funny to see.
But the thing that the kids have had in common with each other is that they didn't realize how many other people deal with it, you know, because it's like, you know, you think about the duck.
You know, little feet are paddling under the water. We don't see their feet. You just see the duck on the top of the pond, and they look calm, cool and collected, but underneath it's a mess, right?
And they're pedaling, paddling as fast as they can.
And I think that young people don't realize.
And I think parents as well, like, they don't realize how often this is happening for other kids as well.
So we talk with them about not only having, you know, how do you debrief after a test and who are you talking to?
Also about having a buddy that you can do some talk about, kind of share about it, right? And kids don't want to do that, but it's because they have felt like they were the only one.
But once they can find out that, wow, other people deal with this too, they can start sharing ideas with each other. You know, not to use the word commiserate, but they can commiserate a little bit, right?
And saying, yeah, okay, well, oh, my gosh, I deal with that, too. And then they can start to share with each other. Here's what I did about that. You know, I noticed that.
Or someone else would say, well, I don't know. What would you do about it? And I always ask the kids at the end of the interview,
what would you. What Advice do you have for another person that is getting ready to take a test? And they'll tell me, and I'll say, well, do you use that?
No. Well, that's a really great idea.
It is a great idea. So it's just kind of funny. Like, they have advice, but they don't often take their own advice. That's probably true for a lot of people.
Right. We have great advice, but we don't always take it ourselves.
Rebecca: Do you find that testing anxiety is sort of exacerbated among homeschoolers or that it looks a little different,
or do you think it's pretty standard with other kids and they just don't have sometimes the ability to talk about it? Realize,
yeah, it, it is.
Dennis: It doesn't get talked about as much in the homeschool world because they're not subject to all those tests. Right. In the public school world, they are. And so it will show up faster.
And, and a lot of times, too, even some of our homeschoolers, our traditional homeschoolers, parents choose homeschooling because they don't want to deal with the anxiety piece.
And for me, it's like, okay, but that's not going away.
When you leave high school and after you leave college. And like you said with the driver's, taking a driver's test, I mean, there's all these things that are going to.
To come out. Even in an interview, you're being interviewed by a company, you're still being tested. You know, it is a test, different way, a different kind of conversation you're having.
But it is, it is something that if we can have some skills and some tools that allow us to be able to deal with in this. In this case, the casp.
Right, right. For our California students.
But what if it could be something you could use in every area of your life? So I, I think it. It's one of those things that I, I really think we don't talk about it because we don't realize how many other people have the same kind of concern or the same kind of issue or the same kind of situation.
Rebecca: What factors do you think contribute to going into a test feeling confident? You've kind of touched on it, but what factors?
Dennis: Oh, well, one. Preparation.
You know, I say I. I hear, and we do. I do presentations. And one of the presentations I do is on the sat.
And how often I hear parents will say, oh, I just want them to take the test cold and see where they are.
And I'm like, oh, my gosh,
I appreciate what you're saying, and that's probably the worst thing you could do to a kid, right? And because,
you know, they go in and a young person goes in and takes a test cold and without preparation.
And I think that that's where some of the anxiety gets born, right? Because they walk in and they see it and they're like, oh my gosh, I did terrible at this.
And the next time they go to take a test, what they're remembering is how it went the last time.
And without that preparation.
The preparation is key, you know, and it's like, I don't know any of the listeners out there. If you play a musical instrument, if you're into sports, if you do dance,
anything that you do, you have to practice, and you have to practice the way that you're going to perform it. You know,
it's like.
Which is why we, even in our test prep, we model the way the test is going to look.
And some people say, oh, you teach to the test. No, we don't teach to the test. We're teaching test prep strategies and how to take a test. It just happens to be this is the test you're going to take.
So we're dealing with the strategies about taking the test.
And so not necessarily we're not really teaching to the test. What we're teaching is, we're teaching, how do you take a test and what is it going to look like,
you know, if you're, if you're a dancer, if you're a musician. I know I'm learning the guitar, right?
And in learning the guitar, there's a particular way that you, you know, you play the chords. And one of the things that I've been learning about, and I've only been playing for six months, right?
And I tell my friends, Well, I know 11 songs now. Like, how could you know 11 songs? You only play for six months? And I said, it's muscle memory, you know, and it's like practice.
And I practice every day. And what I've noticed now is that my hands know where to go,
you know? And when I first started, I thought, I'm never going to learn this. And I was dealing with myself like, I'm never going to. I'm just. I should just quit.
I'm never going to get good at this, right?
But the muscle memory, it's that practice and the practice and practicing it the way that you're going to play it. So in music, but for me is practicing the test and the way you're going to take the test.
So if it's got time, if there's a timer on it, set a timer so you can practice and start to get used to how long is 20 minutes or how long is 40 minutes?
Or what does that look like?
So that people can really, like, have their. When they get ready to take the test, they know what it's going to look like. They know what to experience. They've done some practice with it.
And that's the first piece, right? And that's. And I think that's a piece that gets missed. But then the second piece. Is that what happens when you're in the test and what do you do?
And so it's funny, we. We talked. I've talked to kids about what we call box breathing. Have you. Have you heard that phrase before? The box breathing?
Rebecca: No, I haven't.
Dennis: So what's funny is almost all the kids have heard of it. That's what's so funny to me. It's like, what do you mean? You've heard of this? I said, well, do you use it?
Well, no, but box breathing is something that you think about a box and you breathe in for four, and you're like, literally creating this box where you're breathing in and you're kind of moving up, and then you hold your breath for four and you're going across,
and then you release your breath for four and you're going down. And then you reset for four and then you repeat, right? So you made that box.
So it has them focus on the box, focus on their breath. And what they're not focused on is the fear they were dealing with. And it kind of like a reset, you know, so there's.
There's one. We're also working with kids on isometrics. And with isometrics, it's like, you know, it's like I asked them about when you're in what we call like a peak state, you know, like when you're performing, when you're in the game,
you know, you get in. Kids are called the zone. Like, I'm in the zone, you know, like the playing basketball. It's like, I got zone, you know, I know. Know the shots going in.
And that peak state, though, is getting yourself where you let your body get into that peak state. And that peak state is just by practicing simple isometrics where you're just tightening everything up.
You can hold it. It's kind of like. It's a little bit like breathing. And some kids say, but I don't like doing breath work. Okay, fine.
What about this? Oh, I like that, you know, so we want to give them several different ideas and methods they can use. The other one is about notes. And this one I always get.
You know, when I was in college, it was, you know, I was taking classes and they were hard and I, and I knew that I wasn't going to remember everything,
but what I had was, I had the notes that I had been practicing with, and when it came time to take the test, they said, okay, here's your scratch paper.
I just reproduced all my notes before I even started the test.
So I had all my notes in front of me again, as much as I could remember. But the cool thing about short term memory is that you can look at something right before, like before a test,
you've got that short term memory. You can recall it very quickly. And now you've got notes that you can work from. And kids were like, wow, that's a really cool idea.
And they said, you could do that. I said, of course you could do that. You know, so it's like you've got that, you've got that in front of you. And so, and what we're doing is we're creating comfort so that kids feel comfortable.
And the more comfortable they feel, the less anxiety that's going to show up for them.
Rebecca: How would you advise a parent who has a third grader who's doing this for the first time, and especially if it's their oldest, like maybe the parent hasn't done it. So how do they,
one, help their third grader feel confident and two,
be aware of their own anxiety so they don't sort of talk about that and prepare the kid to be anxious?
Dennis: Right. Well, you know, that's, that's a really great question. So I'm going to tell you I have a great answer.
Rebecca: Okay.
Dennis: So, you know, for, especially for that age group, the third graders, it's all brand new to them and it is literally do it with them.
Sit down and do it with them. And here, let's each do this question when you're done. Let's talk about.
Rebecca: You're talking about test prep, not the test.
Dennis: Yeah, I'm talking about the test prep itself. Right, right, Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Not during the test, but the test preparation piece, it's actually practicing together because parents are going to hear something from the young person and that comes back to the learning styles.
You know, like a mom,
a mom's learning style is going to typically different than their child,
you know, and they, if they especially they've got two, three, four kids Right. And I ask parents all the time, I'm like, well, do they all learn the way you learn?
No, none of them do. They're all different, you know, but it's a great opportunity in doing the preparation is to practice because you're going to see where they get anxious, what shows up for them, what are they thinking, where did they get stuck?
And it's kind of like points to how they best learn. And so then parents can start to work with them on that. And oftentimes parents see something for themselves that they didn't notice.
And so now they can take what they're learning and they can share it with their young person. And the young person takes what they're learning they can share with their parent.
And that becomes really a win win. Because everybody starts to get to feel comfortable and they're talking about it. And I think that's one of the biggest things we don't do is we just say, oh, I have it.
And we don't talk about it. We don't share about what's going on for us because it makes us feel, we feel bad about it. Like, well, I'm the only one dealing with this, right?
But all of a sudden it's like, mom's dealing with this, going, wow, I deal with this too, but I love what you just did. I'm going to start using that,
that changes a kid's perspective a hundred percent when they know that they contributed to a parent. And so, you know, it's one of the things we, we, we put it in our course.
One of the assignments in our test prep course is that they take a quiz, but after the quiz they have to go back and teach someone else what they just learned about.
And oftentimes it's mom and it's like, okay, we want you to teach mom this, this practice problem you did, and you're the teacher.
And in that, that's why we say the book is the student becomes the teacher. Right? Because you know, when you think about,
when you teach someone else something for yourself, you sort out a lot of things for yourself about something you may not have known because now you're having to explain it.
And oftentimes it's kind of in that moment of trying to explain something that things get connected that weren't connected before.
So we want them in that conversation and we want kids teaching others about what they're learning about, whether it's a moment,
grandma, grandpa, dad, brothers, sisters, friends, whoever it might be, but creating that conversation. And in that conversation,
when you start to Teach someone else what you've learned.
It makes your.
Your ability to understand and kind of master the material just skyrockets.
Rebecca: Would that advice to sit with the kiddos and work through the prep together,
have them start to teach it and all of that be the same for maybe a kiddo who's in seventh or eighth grade and has had a history of anxious tests and I just don't want to do this again.
Or is there a little different approach for a kid who has to get. It's not fresh and new in an unknown. It's known and scary.
Dennis: Right? Yeah. Well, our, you know, our seventh grade,
we'll say it this way. When kids become teenagers, I always call them grumpy. Just, they're grumpy teenagers. Right? They're just grumpy. They're grumpy about everything. Right. So sometimes maybe mom's not the best person if you're, you know, if you're an older kid and then finding out, well, who would be,
you know? But it's still the same idea of being in conversation and sharing with somebody and teaching somebody about what you're learning.
And moms are there. If they're not the person that's being taught, they're there to make sure things are getting done. They're more like the accountability person in that. But same process, but maybe not the same people.
Rebecca: And is there anything specific for those kiddos who are already sort of bitter towards the test? Would you do anything a little differently if they're bitter?
Dennis: The first part is find out why.
Okay, like, what is it that, you know, what. What is it that has you not want to do this? Like, what do you think's going on?
And it's going to almost always go back to some experience they had when they were younger and something happened and they made a decision about themselves. And then they are living from that decision.
And now it's that. It's that decision that happened when they were in third grade or fourth grade or fifth grade that's now informing them how they're going to do as an eighth grader.
And we. But if they can talk about it, then they can see where that came from. It's like, oh, yeah, that happened when I was in third grade. But you're not in third grade anymore.
I'm not in third grade anymore. And it's funny. It's funny to watch where they can kind of like something that's in the background when you can bring it out into.
Into the open now you have. You have the say over it anymore. It doesn't have a say over you. That's probably the best way to say that.
Rebecca: Have you seen kids sort of go in scared and come out feeling like conquerors? Like, hey, I did that. And like, you know, we do all the time.
Dennis: Yeah. And it's. And you know, a lot of what we want is we want them going in where they feel good. Right. But, you know, it's like, I mean, anything you do when you're performing, you still have that little nervousness, and nervous is a good thing.
It's like, it's good to feel, have the butterflies going. That's not a bad thing.
And, you know, one of the things about anything about fear is it's like, you know, fear. Fear is an interesting thing. You know, fear is always happening before the action.
You know, it's like I went skydiving, right. Because I had this fear of heights. And I thought, well, if I jump out of an airplane, I'm not going to have a fear of heights anymore.
Right.
Which turned out to be not the case. Right.
But what I noticed was in that moment,
the fear that I had wasn't about when I was doing the free fall. The fear was before.
Before it happened. And once I was in the activity, you know, in this case, jumping out of an airplane, I noticed I wasn't afraid. It was just I was in the moment.
And I think that's what happens for people is that the fear that we get is that we're dealing with the fear before we're actually taking the test.
But once you start taking the test, oftentimes the fear goes away. Cause you kind of get. You create what. You create that zone, and you're working in, inside of the zone.
And then for kids, that the fear shows up. Okay, well, then we've got methods that you can do that will allow you to, you know, just stop, take a break, pause,
redirect the mind, and get you back in the game again.
Rebecca: What about a kiddo who's sitting there? They've gone in. They're. They may not want to be there, but they're doing it and they're moving along. And suddenly they're just stuck.
They're just stuck on. On something they don't understand. And so the fear starts to creep back in because you're feeling.
You're feeling conquered,
right? Right.
Dennis: Yeah. Instead of being. Instead of being the conqueror. Right? Yeah.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Dennis: Gotcha. Yeah, Go on to the next one. You know, like, you know, and the other thing we tell. Tell young people all the time, you know, when you Take a test.
Your job is not to make a hundred percent.
Your job is to do the best you can do. You know, it's like if you think about the sat, even the cat, any standardized task that people take, if everybody's making 100%, they're going to change the test because they don't have any way to come back and say, well,
where do you, how do you compare to other kids if everybody's doing the same?
We don't know.
SAT will do that. And the kids are always like, they'll tell me, oh, I have to, you know, I have to score 800. It's like, okay, let's just say you don't have a score in 800.
What could you score like on the, on the SAT, where they are in that particular section? So it's more about, let's do the ones you can do, feel the ones you feel comfortable about.
And oftentimes you may notice that you're doing a question that is two or three questions ahead and all of a sudden it sparks something in the one you didn't know.
And now you can go back.
And so now there are some times that kids take a test and you can't go back. And that's okay, you know, because the game is do your best and do the best you can do without getting.
If you get stuck on one thing, what about the other 10 things that you could have done and you just got stuck on that one thing? Let's just go on and find, find the ones you can do.
Rebecca: I think too, sometimes a year feels so long to a kid that it's hard to have the perspective of like, well,
even if you don't get the results you wanted this year,
there's next year. And we can learn a lot from how this went. What, what prep stuff worked, what didn't. Where did you still feel like you had holes where in your test scores does it show?
Like, okay, maybe we need to focus a little more on grammar or, you know, we can, we can gain knowledge from that. But to them it's, it's, it's pretty hard for them to see that kind of higher up view in the longer ab.
Dennis: Right? Yeah. Which is why there's charter school teachers and moms and, you know,
we have that to be able to go back with them and say, here's the things you did that were really awesome. Right. Here's some things we can practice and, and then you can ask them about that.
So did you notice this particular thing was hard? What was hard about it? And Then we create the conversation. Now they're engaged and they're interested and they're curious as opposed to, I just can't do it.
Rebecca: As a homeschool mom,
I can sometimes battle a little bit of a feeling of resentment towards the test because I don't want to interrupt my plan for my homeschool with test prep that feels.
It feels extra. It feels outside of my.
My control.
But what I'm hearing you say is all of this test prep,
okay, it's about the CASP or it's about the satisfaction.
But really, there's a lot of life skills, a lot of confidence building,
a lot of other value in the time that's being spent in that. Would that be a fair assessment?
Dennis: That's more than a fair assessment and spot on.
Because we want kids to be problem solvers. That's what we really want. We're out to say, how can we have you be the best problem solver you can be?
And I think that's what parents want. You know, they want their kids to be able to function in the. You know,
people say in the real world, which I think is such a weird thing to say, you know, because it's like, well, in the real world, what am I going to use this?
And so we always tell them it's in. In life outside of a classroom, right? And what does that look like? Because it's still a real world. You're in this right now.
But when they're. We're looking at what kind of skills can we give young people that helps them become better problem solvers?
We just happen to have this course that focuses on the CASP itself,
but we're really working with them on becoming better problem solvers that they can use in every area of their life.
We have a secret. Here's our secret in the course, right? And our secret in the course is that when they're doing a problem, we want them to start with the question first.
Like, what's the question in this problem?
And then once you know what the question is, it's a whole different conversation going on inside in the brain. Like, kids, when they look at the question,
like, when I ask somebody a question,
people tend to answer it, right? But if I create the question with all of this drama, right, that goes on with the beginning of it, and, you know, what. What was the day like?
And what were they doing and what. You know, they create this whole narrative about it. Kids start to form opinions about what they read.
But when we get them to the question first, they go into A problem solving mode. And I tell people, like, wow, what would that be like if you were in a conversation with somebody and you actually knew what their question was?
How could you communicate with them? Because you're trying to support them in solving their problem. Right. And all the background you need to have. But we want to know what the question is first, and then it directs.
Rebecca: Hone in.
Dennis: Absolutely.
Rebecca: What's the important part here? The rest of these are details to be filled in and add to the story.
Dennis: Yeah. And how many times does a kid come back and say, well, that doesn't even have anything to do with the problem. It was just extra information. Right. It happens all the time.
So, yeah,
absolutely.
Rebecca: So learning to.
Well, I think,
too, we as homeschoolers will say, like, we want our kids to learn through life. We want our kids to. It's not always just about the curriculum in the books. Right.
We want. And yet the CASP is a part of their life, and it's a piece of what they have to do. And so learning to figure out how to approach the problem.
How do we approach the problem of. We have to take the casp,
we want to be ready for it. How do we figure out. Feel like we have the skills that we need to do that, and then to build confidence in being able to have accomplished it, but also in feeling good about it and learning to be brave.
Like, those are. Those are all life skills.
Dennis: Those are all life skills. Absolutely.
Yeah. How many kids are going to get stuck because they say to themselves, well, I've got this condition,
and how many times is that going to get in the way of them doing something they really want to do, something they really love to do.
And we're really interested in them doing what that you live a life that you love,
you know, and that from there. And it's funny because it's like, well, you're saying test prep can make that happen. And I'm like, yeah, absolutely, because we're working with them on getting out of the way, what's in the way.
And what's in the way is them feeling nervous or anxious or whatever it is, but once they could get past that, and they have some strategies on how to do it.
Game changer.
Rebecca: Well, Dennis, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. And when do you think your book will be out?
Dennis: So, well,
what I thought was, I have a. A book that I had written before, and I gave it to the publisher, and I said, let's do a rewrite on this book.
And so I thought it was edited. We did. I had two or three people do it through the editing process. So I thought, oh, would this would be easy. We just reprint it.
Oh no, there's so many edits in that book so I'm already working on that. So where I think, I was thinking by the end of the year, I think it's going to be closer to like April until we get all the edits done and working with the publisher.
But they're so good at what they do. I'm so thankful that this is their world and what they do and so it's been really, really great. So this is taking me longer than I planned.
Rebecca: So how do we, how will we be able to find it? Will it be on your website?
Dennis: It'll be on the website. We're going to be sending it to all the schools. So we'll get it to you all. I'll get a copy to you? Absolutely. So you'll have it?
Yeah.
Rebecca: Fantastic.
And listeners, I want you to know, in case you haven't already that the Conquer the CASP course for 3rd through 8th graders and 11th graders is available to all of our students as an all access, as a free all access course.
So you can order that and get without even using school funds. The school has worked all of that out. So if you are interested in exploring that course, you can do that going to through vista or on Mr.
D's website, which you can Google and find very easily. So perfect.
Dennis, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
Dennis: Oh my goodness. Thanks for having me here, Rebecca. This has been a blast. Thank you so much and thanks to everybody out there for listening.
Rebecca: Thank you for joining me today on the Sequoia Breeze Podcast. I hope it's been a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I am your host, Rebecca La Savio.
This has been such a fun conversation that we, that I had with Mr. D. I had a great time and listeners, we have a special treat. We are going to have a bonus episode this month so in two weeks we're going to be releasing another episode chalk full of tips and help and encouragement for facing the testing season.
So you won't want to miss that.
The whole point of it is just how much opportunity there is in the testing season beyond just getting a good score.
So come on back and we look forward to seeing you then.