The Sequoia Breeze

Rebecca: Welcome, listeners, to the Sequoia Breeze podcast. A breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I am your host, Rebecca LaSavio. I'm so glad that you are here today. I've got a treat for you. Stick around and hear me talk to Cori Doerrfeld, a published author of several children's books and a talented illustrator. I think you're going to enjoy our conversation. I am super excited to have Cori Doerrfeld with me this morning. Cori has written and illustrated several picture books. I don't say children's books because they are not exclusively children's books. I think, as you'll see as we go through our conversation this morning. And Cori, thank you so much for being here.

Cori: Oh, you're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I am really excited to be here and to discuss so many important topics with you today.

Rebecca: So while I have a whole stack of Cori's books next to me that I just think are fabulous, the one you are most known for is rabbit listened. Yes.

Cori: Correct. Yes. That is the book that seems to resonate with the most people. It's been translated into the most languages. I think we're the approaching 35. So that is very unique. I think, for a lot of creators, and I know, especially for me, to have something that just seems to keep connecting with people again and again. So, yeah, I feel very grateful to have this book and grateful that people appreciate it. So, yeah, that is. That is my book that most people, if they know me, they know me for the rabbit.

Rebecca: So our family got a hold of this book because it showed up in our mailbox through the Dolly Parton imagination library. And I know you've said that that was part of why the reach of this book was so far. And while we were excited to read it as a family, it was actually, I showed it to my husband, and the two of us were really excited about some of the adult implications of this book. A lot of the books you have written talk a lot about emotional skills. Is that a fair description?

Cori: Sure. Yeah. Emotional learning, correct. Yeah.

Rebecca: And this one is about obviously listening instead of maybe advising. And so let's back up a little bit, and why don't you tell us how this book came to be?

Cori: So this book has a very unique backstory, which maybe isn't surprising since I said it's already kind of unique book. So I'm just going to back up a tiny bit and mention that I didn't necessarily set out in life to have this career to be someone who wrote and illustrated picture books it was something I kind of happened upon to because of luck and hard work, of course, and opportunity. And so a lot of my early work was just jobs that I got, things that I thought were silly and fun. So I kind of had established myself somewhat in the publishing world. And then I became a mom. I have two kids, and so I had friends that were moms as well. And two of those moms actually went through the unimaginable and experienced losing one of their children. And I just had never been so close to someone who was going through something like that. And we did talk a lot. I spoke with both of them a lot, but kind of what they both kept saying was how much they were struggling with all the adults in their life, not knowing how to show up for them. And so they became almost this vessel for everyone else's emotions and actions, which, of course, just kind of added to the weight they were already carrying. And I will be fully honest that I also didn't really know how to be there for them. But I wished with all my being that there was something I could give them to then pass on to everyone else in their life that would just say, this. This is what I need. Like, please, please, please just listen to me. And what I need. So I go on walks a lot. I have. I've always had a little dog. I had a different little dog at the time, but I was on a walk with him, and I remember just thinking and thinking and thinking about my friends and how much they needed to be heard. And something made me remember someone else from my life, the person I dated back in high school who also went through tremendous loss. He lost a brother, an older brother. And I suddenly remembered him telling me how at the time, he was only eight, so a little guy. And where he found comfort after losing his brother was in their family's barn. They had kind of like a hobby farm, and they had a bunch of rabbits. And so that's kind of where he would sneak off to just be alone, but not be alone. So, you know, away from kind of the chatter and all the efforts, you know, of the people in his life to just sit in this quiet space where he could actually connect with what he was feeling and let it out. And, you know, the rabbits just were there, which is what he needed without really even knowing it. So it was just this weird, magical moment of wanting so badly to have something for my friends. And remembering that story from my past that kind of just formed the story almost instantaneously. It's never really happened like that. Before, but I feel like it just started forming almost like I instantly saw, like, this little character in this tower of blocks, and just everything immediately in my mind. And since I illustrate and write, it's kind of. Almost like you can suddenly remember a dream, is how I try to tell people or like a movie. And so it's just flashes of images and words. And so I ran home and started making these little sketches and writing it out, and I did it all very quickly, which, again, is not common, but it was just so present and so there and so ready to come out. So I wrote it all down, and I remember being like, whoa, this is like a really different kind of story. I wonder if it even makes sense. So I shared it with this little critique group I had, and they were all like, yes, yes, this is great. And I read it to my son, who I think was only, like, three at the time, and I was like, do you understand what this book is about? And he goes, oh, you should be like the rabbit. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, all right, it's making sense to all the people. So I send it to my agent, and then she sends it to publishers, and it was really just about a day, I think. Again, this is very uncommon for the publishing world, that we got responses from every editor saying that they wanted it. And so I had my choice but one editor right away. It connected with her on all the levels you'll see as we the book and talk about it. There's nothing in there specifically about loss. But she also knew someone who had just recently gone through tremendous loss. And so she knew. She knew right away what the story, like, the kind of the undercurrents and the things behind it without me even telling her. So I chose her. I said, we have to work with that editor. And we basically just moved the art to final art. And the book was published just as I wrote it. We didn't really change much. Again, that's very rare. And I'm not quite sure how to explain this gift. It feels like a gift from the universe, from every little part of who I am. And maybe that's part of the magic behind it as well, is that it was always unique and special in how it came about. But, yeah, that is how I arrived at writing. The rabbit listened.

Rebecca: That's really a powerful story, and I love the sort of beauty from ashes of, you know, from this really difficult experience with your friends that this very special tool and gift to the world was able to be birthed from that. And that's a really cool thing. So, Cori, would you read us the rabbit listen so that we can then continue to talk about some of the details?

Cori: Absolutely. So I'm just going to jump in, and I'm going to do my best to describe the pictures where I feel are necessary. So this is the rabbit listened. Written and illustrated by Cori Doerrfeld, published by Dial Books for young readers. So the first image you see is the main character. And they are pushing a giant cardboard box. And I often ask the kids I'm reading it to if they can guess what is in this box. And so they like to shout out different things, but that's what we see, a character pushing the box. And they look hopeful, very hopeful. So then the next picture is the box is opened, and the little character is holding up a little wooden building block. One day, Taylor decided to build something. Something new, something special, something amazing. So here we see Taylor's beautiful block tower that they have created. Taylor was so proud. But then, out of nowhere, things came crashing down. So there's this big, swooping group of crows that comes down and just destroys this tower. Absolutely knocks it down into pieces. So then we see Taylor looking down, very sad at this destroyed tower. The chicken was the first to notice. So a little chicken peeks in. Cluck, cluck. What a shame. I'm so sorry, sorry, sorry this happened. Let's talk, talk, talk about it. Cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck. But Taylor didn't feel like talking, so the chicken left. Next came the bear. Roar. How horrible. I bet you feel so angry. Let's shout about it. Roar, roar, roar. But Taylor didn't feel like shouting, so the bear left. The elephant knew just what to do. Trump a da. I can fix this. We just need to remember exactly the way things were. But Taylor didn't feel like remembering. So the elephant also left. One by one, they came. The hyena. He let's laugh about it. The ostrich. Let's hide and pretend nothing happened. The kangaroo. Tsk, tsk. What a mess. Let's throw it all away. And the snake. Let's go knock down someone else's. But Taylor didn't feel like doing anything with anybody. So eventually, they all left, until Taylor was alone. And Taylor still looks very sad and defeated. In the quiet, Taylor didn't even notice the rabbit, but it moved closer and closer until Taylor could feel its warm body. Together, they sat in silence until Taylor said, please stay with me. The rabbit listened. The rabbit listened as Taylor talked. The rabbit listened as Taylor shouted. The rabbit listened as Taylor remembered and laughed. The rabbit listened to Taylor's plans to hide, to throw everything away, to ruin things for someone else. Through it all, the rabbit never left. And when the time was right, the rabbit listened to Taylor's plan to build again. I can't wait, Taylor said. It's going to be amazing. And then the final image is kind of this imaginary tower kind of represents, like, emerging from the crashed blocks. This new new tower that Taylor is now excited to work on and build. And Taylor finally looks happy again. That is the end of, well, the words of the story. So thank you for letting me share that with all of you.

Rebecca: Thank you. Corrie. How do kids respond to that? When you read to them at schools.

Cori: They seem to look very satisfied at the end, because usually I introduce the story by saying, who here has ever felt sad? And they usually raise their hands and I say, or who has known someone that is feeling sad? And again, they raise their hands, and I said, does anyone here feel like they know the best way to be there for someone who is Sadeena? Sometimes they say some things, and I say, well, this is why I wrote this book. I said, there's many animals in it, and each animal thinks it knows how to make the character feel better. I said, but I bet you can guess already which animal does. And so then at the end, we reflect back, you know, like, I'll ask them, like, you know, was the bear helpful? And they're like, no. You know, and what about the, you know, the ostrich? And then they're very satisfied when we all agree that the rabbit was. But then they like saying, too, what the rabbit did, you know, because you can see different things in the picture, you know, like the rabbit. The rabbit gave Taylor a hug, you know, and the rabbit, of course, they say the rabbit listened. And so. But that's what I guess I did without even really knowing, is it's so simple, yet works so well. That very clear message, to be like that rabbit. And so I think that's why it's so satisfying, even for very little kids, because they understand. And even if all they understand is that a block tower was ruined, because that's very real in toddler land, to have a tower knocked down, they still. It's very. Just satisfying is the only word I can think of to know that there is a. There is something anyone can do. Like, anyone, you know, can listen if they stop and take that moment to remember to be like the rabbit. So. Yeah, no, usually they're. They're very. They're very into it. And of course, they love all the animal sounds, and I usually ask them to make them with me. So. And then at the end, we're all rabbits, so it's very noticeable as well. When it suddenly is very quiet. I usually have them make little rabbits with their hands, just like a peace sign, kind of wiggle your fingers. And then, of course, lots of kids want to say, I have a pet rabbit, or I even just then kind of fun to talk about why I chose a rabbit, because most kids are familiar with that animal and they know that they're quiet and they have big ears. And so it's fun. It's fun to think about all that. And yeah, I'm usually very happy that kids connect so easily and understand it.

Rebecca: Anybody who's listened to other episodes of this podcast knows how very passionate I am about reading out loud to kids. And when we were that, which is one of the reasons why I was so excited to have you on today, is to continue to encourage and to broaden libraries. And you were telling me the other day about some very cool questions that you can pull out of this. For parents that are reading this with their kids. Can you talk to us about that?

Cori: Absolutely. So, hopefully, from my backstory, it's kind of evident that I actually was thinking of grown ups when I wrote this. I think a lot of us, at least I know I have been this way, assumed I knew what listening meant. But that moment with my friends and then creating this book really taught me that maybe I didn't always know. And so I like to ask parents to think about, is there an animal in the book? Like, the animals kind of represent different stages of grief, like emotions, but also how people might show up with good intentions, thinking that they're helping someone else. But obviously it's not maybe what that person really needed. So I know I can relate a lot to the chicken. I think a lot of us can, you know, a friend calls us or we're out somewhere and they want to tell us about something bad that happened. I think it's very natural to want to start talking about something we experienced, you know, instead, which instantly, you know, diverts everything from that person. And I think it's, you know, sometimes with kids, too, instead of actually listening to what they might have to say, we, like, talk over them or we dismiss it. I know I also tend to be an ostrich sometimes. I just don't like confrontation. I think a lot of parents maybe feel like that, too, or, you know, the bear. We all get angry there's just lots of different things that can come up naturally. And so just taking that moment to reflect on what animal you might lean towards versus the rabbit can be a really helpful way to just reset that mind, that mindset, and, like, how you're handling a situation to, like, oh, I guess I'm kind of being a kangaroo right now. I'm just wanting to, like, sweep this problem under the rug and not really address it, when actually maybe I need to be a rabbit, even just for a moment, and actually sit and, you know, even if it's uncomfortable. And that's a big thing is usually all these other animals come out because we don't like when someone else is upset, and especially our own child, it makes us uncomfortable. And so instead of jumping to the quickest, maybe way to push the emotion aside is like, can you be uncomfortable? Can you sit with that child and just really hear them? And then it's something children can use back. Like, if you read the book and then talk to them, you know, you can even say things like, I'm really sorry I was a bear. Like, or, I didn't mean, you know, to act like a hyena and just make a joke about something and embarrass you. Like, it just becomes a way you can easily talk about things that are very difficult and complicated emotions. And especially the sadder, you know, more complicated emotions. It's just, it's silly, but it really, it works. Like, they get it. You get it. It's just this easy way to bring this new language into your lives where you can actively. Yeah, like I said, like, apologize or even say, like, I. You're being a chicken right now. Could you please be a rabbit? And it's just, I don't know. I'm not saying anyone ever remembers that every time. But even if mentally, sometimes I'll be like, oh, no. Like, I really just started talking there where this person needed me to listen. And so it's just, it's just a helpful little tool, which is what I always hoped it would be to help people tackle. Yeah. These difficult emotions and situations.

Rebecca: And it seems, am I right that, like, the animals were all asking Taylor to experience grief on their timeline? Not Taylor.

Cori: Exactly right. And when they couldn't do that, they abandoned the situation. And so that's the other big thing that the rabbit did, is, like I said, sitting with that discomfort and waiting for that other person to be ready, not, yes, doing it when you would like it to be done.

Rebecca: Have you ever had any parents react to the snake part it's like, let's go destroy someone else's. And then later, Taylor has those thoughts as well.

Cori: But that's, people usually just acknowledge that that's a very real thought. You know, an eye for an eye, tit for tat. I think a lot of people, especially people that are sad or suffering, you know, misery loves company. They want to kind of see someone else suffer. And we've all been there, even with our own toddlers. You know, someone knocks down their tower, well, they're going to go, you know, knock down your tower or, you know, like someone breaks your toy or rips your drawing, and then they immediately want to do it back, you know, like. And I think it's a very base reaction, for sure. So usually they just like that it's acknowledged. That's a real part of it, because then it opens up again, that discussion. And, like, why? Why do you think that is something you feel it would be fair, you know, even if you don't act upon it? I think, yeah, it's a very real part of being human to kind of have that moment of, well, this isn't fair, so why should you have something that, you know, seems more fair?

Rebecca: You mentioned when we talked before to get ready for this episode about something about asking parents, asking kids. See, I don't even remember it, so I'd love to hear it again, but, you know, are there times when I've been a bear or something like that? Do you remember what you were talking about?

Cori: Well, I was just bringing that up as a tool, an easy way to have a language that you can all understand because we all know as parents, we're not going to be perfect. Our kids aren't going to be perfect. Like, I mean, this is long before I wrote the rabbit. Listen. But I remember I used to say things like, I'm very sorry I was crabby. I haven't slept very well recently, is what I always tell my kids. And I remember the first time my son, he was so little, I forget what he did. But the lady who's like, I'm so sorry, I was just really crabby. I haven't swept well lately. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And so that, I guess, is something important, I think about is who you are. They are always noticing. And so I feel like the more you can kind of recheck in with yourself and say, oh, am I being a rabbit? And actually, I spoke with someone the other day who gave me a new perspective, is you also need to learn to be a rabbit for your own self, your own thoughts. You know, so many times we are quick to. To judge ourselves. I know as a mom, I have felt guilty so many times about something I said or did, and instead of really maybe thinking that out, I'll just, like, shove it aside where maybe if we practice listening to our own thoughts, our own heart, your kids are picking up on that, so they will start intuitively more listening to their own thoughts. And there's never anything wrong with emotions. I always try to tell kids that, like, emotions in themselves are what they are, there's nothing wrong with them, they're not bad. It's how we choose to act out after those emotions. Or if we never. Yeah. Come back and have that time where we might say, you know, sorry, you know, because people, people are not perfect for people. So I really think, yeah, just the more you practice something, just anything in parenthood, the more they will practice it and kind of start picking up on being the rabbit, apologizing maybe when they are something else, like a bear. So, yeah, it's really just meant to be a tool or a way to hidden in a story that can give people some language to bring up difficult topics.

Rebecca: So after the rabbit listened, it seems to have opened the door for you to write other sort of books about feelings and trying to understand what's going on in yourself and the people around you. Is that fair?

Cori: Yes. Seeing the success that people really embraced a story like that definitely gave me the confidence to tackle some other topics. So, for sure, it's something I think about now a lot when I'm writing a story, although it's still a tricky thing because I really like when stories kind of organically come about. Kind of like the rabbit listened, but I've definitely felt more open, yes. To writing more stories and hoping people continue to see them as tools because it was so apparent how much tools were needed, especially for more difficult topics like grief. I know certain cultures, they have systems set up, but I know, like, in my own family and probably a lot of people in more just traditional american culture, whatever. There really isn't a lot of guidance until it's happening, you know? And so I like kind of encouraging these discussions earlier and all the time that, you know, we, we don't have to hide certain things away, we don't have to shun away from certain topics or feelings, you know, always doing it at an age appropriate level. But I try to create books that are just that. They start a conversation and the parent can always choose what level to bring that conversation to based on the child's age or the child's interest or questions. But sometimes it's just nice to have something that even introduces a topic that maybe you didn't know how to introduce.

Rebecca: Our family has gone through lots of periods of transition and kind of moving around a little bit. And so, goodbye, friend. Hello, friend really struck a chord. So why don't you talk about that one for a minute?

Cori: So, yeah, goodbye, friend. Hello, friend. That's exactly what it's about, is transitions. I am a transplant to where I live, and it was difficult to make friends. And eventually I had this little solid group, and then they all moved away. And I remember feeling really lost without these friends. And then one morning at the bus stop, I kind of took a chance and started talking to another mom. And then she said, oh, I actually have this mom group that I run, you know, why don't you join it? And then through that, I ended up meeting a new group of friends. And it just really made me think about that. Life is full of goodbyes, but it's also full of hellos. And usually that goodbye is what leads you to that next hello. So it's, again, very simple, but it just follows a little girl as she kind of enters school and all those big transitions that kind of happen in a kid's life, but then also all the little ones. Cause, you know, we all know that when kids are little, that's their whole day. It's like we are moving from breakfast, you know, to getting dressed or moving from getting dressed to maybe getting in the car and going somewhere. And I feel like, as you know, kids don't always like that. And so I feel like if you can kind of set up this idea that, oh, you know, we're going to say goodbye to this, but we're saying hello to something else, you know, that's new or exciting. It just kind of helps set up that idea that, yes, some things end, but then there's always something new to start. And so that's all that. I kind of tried to set up with that again, it's just a way to start a conversation about change and what we say goodbye to and then what we say hello to. And that book specifically. Yeah, I guess. Follows a friendship kind of just like what I went through, where sometimes you actually do have to say goodbye to people and how difficult that can be.

Rebecca: The other book that has really, that just really struck me. I don't know. I really love this book for so many reasons, is beneath. I think it's beautiful to look at. It's your artwork is much more detailed than in the rabbit listened, for example. And I'll let you talk about it because you also hide little. Not hide. You include lots of small details that have a lot of meaning in this book, and I get all tongue tied when I'm trying to talk about it, but it's beneath meaning that there's a lot more going on under the surface than sometimes we realize. And I think that that's very true for kids. They don't understand that the people next to them are having feelings or thoughts that they aren't sharing. But there's a lot of depth in this story. You want to tell us about this one?

Cori: Sure. No, thank you. That's exactly kind of where I was going. So, again, it stems from life experience, but it was actually switched around. We lost my grandpa, and I will never forget how everyone in my family, even though they might present themselves differently. Like, some people were more stoic. Some people wanted to pour through photos. Some people wanted to be alone. So everybody looked kind of different. But if you asked all of them, we were all kind of dealing with this same emotion of missing my grandpa. So there was that experience, and then we were at the zoo, and there was this amazing snake skeleton that you could only see because the snake obviously had long passed and the skeleton had been preserved. I remember thinking, like, that is so cool. Like, you can see all its ribs. And while it's different, some of it is like bones in our own body. And so it was kind of this moment of realizing that nature is a really cool way to kind of engage kids and maybe get them to start thinking about a more complicated topic, like the fact that adults have emotions, too, even if we sometimes hide them or seem well composed, you know, that everybody kind of around you has layers to who they are and to what they're experiencing and thinking. So that's kind of what inspired the story is, you know, there's the little character Finn. And kids are more overt and literal, you know, like, Finn is hiding beneath a quilt, you know? And I remember doing that a lot as I was when I was a kid, was. I would hide if I was scared or sad, because it really makes you feel like, well, nobody can see me. Like, I'm safe under here, and my feelings are contained. When obviously, the grandpa knows very much that this child is dealing with something, and they don't want to talk. And so the grandpa's like, well, how about we just go for this walk? And it actually takes place on the Minnesota North Shore, which is a beautiful part of the state I live in. I really love it. And so it was fun to kind of think about that part of the. The country and how it's kind of magical. And there's so many animals and things happening with the lake. And so, yeah, they just kind of go on this walk, and little by little, the grandpa points things out, you know, like a bird. And then underneath are these eggs, you know, where there's the calm surface of the water, but underneath, there's so much happening with these fish swirling around. And it kind of progresses through all these moments in nature to finally. Then they come across people, because lots of people, people hike up there, and they bring up the idea that these people also are more than just this physical outer appearance. You know, there's a lot more going on, and it leads the child on their own to kind of have this moment of like, oh, my gosh, you know, I think my grandpa might know more about everything that I'm feeling than I assumed. And so then they kind of come together in the end because, again, it's not spelled out. But that book was fun to make because there's just little hints as to why the characters are upset. And then, especially with the jacket, you know, the jacket is the protective sleeve on the book. If you pull that off, it's kind of like the past. If you could lift. Lift up the present. Underneath is the past. And which, again, is something that's very true. Like, the past is always beneath the present. But again, you can bring the book where you need it to be. You can talk about that they might be grieving the loss of the grandma, but you can also just keep it at, you know, people are more than what we see or even just the part about the animals. Like, kids usually get very excited because anyone could go for a walk and start thinking about, like, ooh, like, what's under the ground? Or, like, what do you think you know is out in that lake? And it just, again, starts these conversations with him. It's about being creative thinkers, thinking about more than just the parts we maybe see or hear or feel that there's other parts of the world and other parts to us. So, yeah, thank you for also appreciating that book. That book was very fun to make, and I really enjoyed that they let me do more details and kind of have a more colorful, filled out world, which, again, is that story a little bit more specific. Where rabbit was meant to be, like, everywhere and nowhere is. Why that book is so minimal is I didn't want it to ever be distracted by taking place in a specific location where beneath. I don't think that that needed to be that way. It meant something to me to have it be, you know, take place in my home state.

Rebecca: Mm hmm. It's. Well, and I think every time you read it, you'll notice something new. So while the rabbit listened, hones you in on just, this is what we're talking about right here. Beneath allows a lot of a different kind of exploration, and I. Stories are so powerful. You can sit and explain to your kid, hey, you know, that person feels things, too, and they can understand, and it's not going to connect the way a story connects with your brain and your emotions. And it creates a memory that a lecture is not going to give.

Cori: Yeah. Yeah. There is something very magical, I think, especially about picture books, because usually, as you said, they're read aloud or it's like a shared experience. And so it almost by that situation creates an opportunity to make connections or solidify memories together, you know, to. To build something that you can both go back to. And I really like that idea of a memory or even just, I feel like sometimes a book just has a mood, like a vibe to it, and you just remember, like, I remember reading that, it made me feel like this and, oh, now I remember, you know, that everybody's more than what we see.

Rebecca: Do you ever read any, either of those books at schools as well? Or do you usually stick to rabbit listened?

Cori: I read any book that a school lets me. Usually they like the rabbit listen because it's such a fun read aloud, but I certainly have read beneath. I think that book is also a little bit more successful with slightly older kids because they usually have the ability to appreciate kind of the art or the more sophisticated, I guess. I don't know how to say it, just the more deeper thoughts.

Rebecca: A little bit.

Cori: Yeah, yeah. There's a little bit more happening, and there are a little bit more subtle kind of things that you have to watch out for. And so, yeah, I know. I've definitely read that book as well. It's just not the big showstopper with the animal sounds that rabbalistin can be, but sometimes that's even fun to compare. And, you know, you know how there are different kinds of books and that they are all good in their own way. So what.

Rebecca: How do kids respond to beneath when you read it out loud?

Cori: I feel like, again, they, they usually focus the most on the animals. And I will say this, there is a part where there's a woman who hasn't obviously, pregnant belly. And you can see the growing baby, and they almost always comment on that part, and they get very excited. So I always. I enjoy that. I enjoy that because I think that that is something that's, I don't know, very cool and something, again, that people try to protect. I don't know. It sometimes gets put to the side when it's such an obvious thing. Like, usually you see these big ballets. There's a. There's a baby in there. And so they get very, I don't know, excited about that kind of this. In the part with the people, they do like that part because they'll always be like, you know, that little boy is hungry and, like, that's why he's, you know, crying. And I feel like they're just very intrigued by that. And then they usually always point out, you know, the broken hearts and the, like. It's interesting. They do get very excited about the parts with the people. Like, like, you're on the journey with Finn to. To this moment of, like, oh, my gosh. Like, it's not just animals and plants. Like, people are like this, too. And, yeah, you set it up.

Rebecca: So your ability to put really big emotions that sometimes adults don't quite know how to explain into a context that kids can grasp is just so cool. That's. And it. And it really does speak to kids but also to adults. Like, it takes sort of hard, sometimes scary emotions. Like, not. It's not scary because they're big and puts them into a tangible, almost sweet context. Like, I mean, essentially, all three of these books, on some level, are about grief, and that's just hard. Like, grief is scary because it's often unexpected, it's always unwanted, and. But it. All three of these books make it. They point out the hope that will come at the end, and they give it. They give it words and comfort, I think. And I'm. I just really think you do an amazing job at that.

Cori: Well, thank you so much. It means a lot. It's a very solitary career, and I think most creators would say when you're making the work, you're always in doubt. Like, is what I'm doing important, or does it make sense? And obviously, it's tied to a publisher's hope to have a book that sells well. And I ultimately feel like I never have control over that. So it means a lot to hear that you see what I'm trying to do and see the value in creating tools that help people tackle topics that sometimes are avoided. Because I do think if we can start early, you know, by building empathy and compassion and reminding kids that, you know, inner worlds are important and that there's always so much going on and we should acknowledge all of it instead of. Sometimes I think, just. I don't know, it's hard to be uncomfortable. People often, I think, just avoid all this because it is. It's uncomfortable and they don't know what to do or say because they themselves were never really taught. So it does take some courage. But again, that's, I'm hoping. Hoping books. Books like the ones I make. And I know there's others out there. Just. Just help a little. Help a little with that tricky introduction to more difficult topics.

Rebecca: And I think, too, like, these books don't have to be read at a time of grieving. They can be read just to appreciate what they are. And that then sets families up to have a vocabulary. Like you talked about with the rabbit, listen. But also with the others of remember, yes, we have to say goodbye to this, but that means there's a hello and to have a way of talking to each other, way of bringing up some of those uncomfortable things. Like, I feel like hiding today, and I. There's a lot going on beneath my surface, you know, there's a lot going on. Or if a child is in an argument with another child, well, what do you think's going on beneath their anger? You know, what do you think it gives parents a vocabulary to talk with their kids, to help them develop their understanding of the emotional world around them, not to necessarily sit and dwell in it, but to learn how to handle it.

Cori: Right. And that was a very good point. Yeah. I never meant to say that. These books are only for the actual situations. I think it's great to always have books of different kinds that are being read because, yeah, you don't know. You don't know when you might actually need that vocabulary. So just having it be something that's part of your world already is super helpful because that's already been established, then when you get to the part that's a little trickier.

Rebecca: So before we go, I would also, if you don't mind, you mentioned before a way that you help kids develop characters. And if you don't mind walking us through that for just a minute, I think it's a really fun way for parents to be able to talk with their kids, to create, to think through, like, what makes a character something that's interesting. And so as they're thinking about their own creative writing or just thinking about, you know, kind of that's a, it's a critical thinking skill as well. And do. Would you mind walking us through how you do that with classes?

Cori: Of course. So, yeah, this is something I've kind of just learned from doing it so much in classrooms. I usually end visiting a school or any kind of book event. I have a big pad of paper, and I tell the kids, you know, this is how I kind of come up with ideas sometimes. Like, you're going to help, you know, all together, we're going to make up a new story idea. And so usually we start by choosing a character. Usually the kids want to pick an animal just because that's a little bit more, I guess, interesting or fun. So we'll, we'll pick an animal. For example, I just did this the other night, and the first time the kids picked an elephant, the second time, they picked an axolotl, which was a little trickier for me. And I always tell, you know, parents and kids that I don't, I don't know what everything looks like. So say your kid does want to do an axolotl. You know, go on, go online and look up some pictures. Like, I look at pictures all the time of what animals look like. So usually we pick our character. It can be a person, it can be an animal, it could be a tree, it could be anything, really. And so then usually I say, you know, we're going to pick an emotion, an emotion that this character is experiencing. Are they sad? Are they sleepy? Are they, you know, angry? And so the kids usually then pick something like that, and then we talk about why. Like, why is the character feeling this way? So with our axolotl, they were feeling frustrated because they really loved pandas and couldn't really figure out how they could ever meet a panda. So, I mean, again, it's so interesting, like, who would ever connect those dots? But that's how easily it can happen is start with these questions of who is your character? What emotion are they feeling? And then why? And so then from there, we just started building this whole story of, like, okay, well, axolotls are amphibious, is what this one child said. And so maybe they do end up leaving the water and going on an adventure to meet a panda. So it kind of is just this simple way of, kind of snowballing questions, and it's kind of magical how quickly it turns into this story that you never would have come up with otherwise. And for the elephant. So our elephant was sleepy and trying to get ready for bed. But in that story, the things the elephant needed kept disappearing or turning into something else. Like, the elephant needed a toothbrush, and it turned into a stick. Or, like, you know, I'm trying to remember the other ones, but it was really funny. And so I like this idea again of a story about this elephant's just so tired and wants to go to bed, but everything it needs, you know, from its pajamas to its pillow, I think the pillow turned into a marshmallow. Everything just kept becoming something that wasn't what it needed. And so in that one, we decided that maybe it was actually all a dream or something, but it's a really fun exercise to just kind of get someone thinking, you know, pick that character, what are they feeling? And then why? And it just kind of gets sillier and sillier the more reasons you come up with. And like I said, it's totally fine to go online, look up pictures. You can think about where the animal lives or where the character lives. And sometimes that can be a crucial part of the story, too. But I've found that it's really that simple. And by the end, we have, you know, usually we name the character, we give the story a name, and suddenly you have this unique story that has never existed before. And I have never had a time where it didn't work. So it always leads. It always leads to something. And I'm always amazed at the ideas that kids have because it's always, like, I never would have thought to make an axolotl who loved pandas so much, had to figure out a way that they could maybe meet one in real life. So that was really cool to think about that and actually did start to get me thinking about, like, what if, like, yeah, you had this amphibious character who was, like, torn between two worlds, and, like, it's just really fun. The places you can go once you start assigning an emotion and a situation to a character. And then, of course, can get kids thinking back on their own lives, you know, if they are feeling a certain way, they might start thinking about why or especially with someone else, you know? And so it can all be tied together once again, big topics. And I do think that drawing and writing are always great ways to explore and reflect on emotions, your own life, what other people are going through. And just in general, I think, helps build more empathetic understanding kids, because the more you're exposed to something, the more you discuss it, the more familiar you'll be and maybe less uncomfortable down the road, which, hopefully is what we will have someday. Right. It's just this more compassionate, understanding world where people are willing to listen to each other and, yeah, just have that empathy that everyone is more than what you see. Right.

Rebecca: Do you have any new projects in the works?

Cori: Yes. So I did have a newer book come out in March. That one's called ready to soar. And that book's kind of about. It's very similar to rabbit, but it's about kind of how to show up for someone when they are trying something new. And then I just finished a book called Nellie's big splash that is kind of about facing an inevitable fear. So sometimes we know there's something we have to do or something that seems really scary, and there's really sometimes no choice but to turn around, confront it. And then I had, I guess those are the ones that I wrote that, that are more recent. That one won't be out till next March, but I'm ready to soar is out now. Nellie's big splash is out next year. But then I did have one I just illustrated come out just like a week ago. And it's. It's pretty sweet. It was very challenging for me, probably from the books we've talked about. You can tell I like animals and nature, but this book all takes place in a yemenite. It's kind of, it's called good night school. It's like the after hours kind of behind the scenes as this guard is kind of closing down the school and a turtle escapes. And kind of. It's kind of like a. It's just a very sweet little soft story about where this turtle goes through the school. But, yeah, I'm always, always trying to work on something, and my brain is currently trying to feel out some new ideas. But, yeah, I don't know. It's sometimes tricky. I have to remember to fill my creative well, because it's. Sometimes it's hard, especially when you've had books that are very successful and people are like, just do that again. And I'm like, I can't and I don't want to. So that's always, the balance is finding new material that feels similar in its importance and is well executed without just repeating myself. So, yes, I'm always trying because I do love it. That's been my thing ever since I was little. I just. I really do love to draw, and I love the idea of, yeah, sharing. Sharing something with other people in a way that truly works, because sometimes it's connection. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to put things in words, and even I sometimes struggle with speaking. But, you know, the books. The books seem to do what they need to do. And so I am glad we have books.

Rebecca: Me, too. Cori, thank you so much for being here today. And listeners, we will have some links to the books and to Cori's website so that you can check these out because there's a lots of, lots of good nuggets there. So thank you for being here and for sharing with us. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Cori: Oh, absolutely. Thank you again so much for having me and just seeing the importance of everything we talked about today.

Rebecca: Thank you for joining me today on another episode of the Sequoia Breeze podcast. I hope this has been a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I've been your host, Rebecca LaSavio. Join me again next week. And don't forget to share and like this podcast.