The Sequoia Breeze

Rebecca: Welcome to the Sequoia Breeze podcast. A breath of fresh air for your homeschool. I am your host, Rebecca LaSavio. I am glad that you've joined us today. I think that you will be encouraged by the interview that you are about to hear. Welcome, listeners. I'm so glad that you are joining us today. I am here in the booth with Heidi Motto, and she is an HST with Feather River.

Heidi: Clarksville.

Rebecca: Clarksville. Great. So I'm gonna let her introduce herself because she knows more about it than I do. And we are here today to talk about ADHD.

Heidi: What is it?

Rebecca: How does it manifest itself? What do we do about it? If we have somebody we love that is living with that, and how can we help our students succeed? So welcome, Heidi. Thank you for being here.

Heidi: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be in the booth.

Rebecca: So tell us a little bit about yourself.

Heidi: Yeah, I'm an HST. I've been with our family of schools for, I think, six years now. I have two kids. They're four and two girl, four, boy, two. I've been married for ten years now, which is crazy. I don't feel like I'm old enough to say that. And I live up in Vista. Love it. Love the mountains, love the forest. So.

Rebecca: And you told me you are, you were homeschooled yourself.

Heidi: I was, yeah. My mom boldly homeschooled myself and my two brothers and for me, all twelve years, so.

Rebecca: Awesome. Are you local to California?

Heidi: Yeah, born and raised.

Rebecca: Okay, great. So talk to us about. Why are we talking to you about ADHD? You've been looking into this and studying it and doing some research and talk to us about the journey that's led you to that.

Heidi: Yeah, I am just somebody who was in a conversation a few years ago. I was never diagnosed with ADHD, but I was talking to someone who was getting their child diagnosed, and I thought, huh, that's weird. I never thought of that child as someone with ADHD. And she went on to list the symptoms, and she was saying, well, she kind of. She's more of an inattentive student with ADHD. And I said, okay, tell me more about that. She's like, yeah, she just kind of gets caught up in her daydreams. And it's not that she's hyperactive and can't sit still, but she's showing other symptoms. Like I already said, daydreaming and just kind of that lack of focus. She'll sit down and be like, what am I doing? What am I supposed to be doing right now? And she kind of kept going. And I was like, I think you're talking about me. And so I went back to my mom, who homeschooled me, and I said, mom, do you think I have ADHD? And she just simply smiled at me. Like, she didn't even say anything at first. And I was like, what's that? And she was like, you absolutely do. And I said, why didn't you diagnose me? And she's like, oh, I don't know. It didn't seem necessary. And I said, after I thought about it for a second, I said, if you had sent me to a brick and mortar and I had to sit in a classroom all day, every day, would you have gotten me diagnosed? And she said, probably you would have needed it. And so it just spoke to the volume or the strength of homeschooling and the power that it gave her to be able to kind of accommodate where needed. And I can think of so many times where I would be in the middle of a project or whatever, and she would be like, let's go outside, or let's take a break. Go do whatever you want. Maybe not necessarily go outside, but go do something that you're excited about and take a break.

Rebecca: So did that change anything that you did with yourself, like how you saw daily tasks or things that you needed to accomplish once you knew?

Heidi: Yeah, I think I changed quite a few things, maybe some quicker than others. But honestly, at first, it just gave me a lot of grace for myself to be like, okay, well, if I'm potentially maybe different than some people and my brain works in a different way, what does that mean for the day to day for me? And then how can I support myself? So, like, I thought a lot about how to support students with ADHD, but how do I support myself? And I kind of went back and I did quite a few things, and I was like, I created, like, a weekly task list. And so I just kind of wrote down everything that I needed to do. And I'm a digital girl. I love my Google calendar. I love having all that kind of stuff in the digital form, but I got this pad of paper, and I just rip it off every Sunday, and I just go through everything that I have to do that week, and I write down the little stuff, the big stuff, just so I can remember and kind of see, too. Like, Monday's a heavy day. Maybe don't do so much on Tuesday or, you know, so that's just. There's just some little stuff that I've done that. I've changed for myself, for sure.

Rebecca: I don't know if we're jumping the gun on this in our conversation or not, but I've seen plenty in Facebook conversations amongst other homeschoolers and things. To know that to diagnose or to not diagnose is a big question. So having not been diagnosed and adjusting to that as an adult, what do you think about that? It's a good question.

Heidi: So I remember I was reading something or listening to something about ADHD, and this was a, this was a couple of years ago, and they kind of asked that question like, if you are now at the end of, I think it was a podcast, if you're at the end of this podcast and you're thinking, man, I have, I have ADHD, you have the option of going and getting diagnosed, but you also don't have to. And so for me, it kind of speaks to the whole aspect of being homeschooled, too. What was it going to change for me as a person to go through the system, go, you know, go to take all the assessments and all that kind of stuff to see if I was ADHD, what was it going to do for me? And to me, it wasn't going to serve me. If anything, it was just going to take up more of my time that I don't have. And so I didn't feel like it was necessary. I think it might not be the same answer for everyone, and there's certain people or there's certain reasons that you might want to have that diagnosis, whether it be for work or in the education system. So I'm not going to say there's one right way or whatever, but that was for me.

Rebecca: I suppose there are some families where having an answer would be really helpful, that we can rule out other things and know it is this, and now we can look for those supports and those resources to help us navigate this and not worry anymore. What could it be? Options B or C?

Heidi: Absolutely.

Rebecca: Absolutely.

Heidi: There's so many things, and like, in my kind of my research, I guess you could say there's a lot of overlap with different with the ADHD symptoms, and that can overlap with a lot of other things that could potentially be going on in your brain. You know, something that came up a lot was that trauma can show up as something similar to ADHD. It can look like a lack of focus, it can look like just hyperactivity because you just don't know how, you know, it can show up a lot of different ways.

Rebecca: So hyper awareness at all times to make sure that trauma doesn't hit them again.

Heidi: Absolutely. That need for control. There's a lot of. Exactly. And so I think that before you maybe go and diagnose a child or when you're diagnosing a child, be aware that there might be something else going on.

Rebecca: I know that you've got some things to talk about, how kids can look like they might have ADHD when they don't. But let's back up and talk about who are kids with ADHD. We are primarily going to focus on students and kids. Now, some adults listening to this may hear themselves in this, but we're not going to focus so much on that today. I think that's our. Our goal here today is to help us as parents understand. Do we have a kid who just needs to get outside more, or do we have a kid who might need some special, creative ways to get school done and keep life manageable? So let's talk a little bit about what are some of the signs you're looking for with ADHD?

Heidi: Yeah, like I said before, they're the daydreamers. They're the kids who can't keep track of their stuff. They need, like, ten reminders to go pick up their shoes that are in the middle of the hallway, you know? And yes. Is that just all kids? I don't know, but, you know, there's those prevalent things that show up, but I think that they're also the ones, like, they're not just the kids who can't sit still. So, like you said, sometimes we need to get creative in how we use that. Because in my mind, I would love to be able to flip the script and say, it's not just kids who can't pay attention to things because they can also hyper focus. And so kind of my biggest thing with ADHD is to see it as more of a superpower and not just a thing that might potentially hold your student back in your classroom, at home, in relationships. And so look at it as, okay, they're having a hard time focusing on maybe something that they're not super excited about. But, man, when he starts talking about legos, that's all he can talk about and he can't stop talking. So utilize that hyper focus skill in your education.

Rebecca: So you could have a kid who's not getting things done, has to be told to do things a lot, but at the same time, is maybe is ignoring your request to pick up his shoes because he is so intent on finishing this project that he's in the middle of and he just cannot switch his focus.

Heidi: But.

Rebecca: But later, when you're asking him to do a school subject he doesn't enjoy, he can't get his brain onto it at all. Like, he's distracted and talking about other things. And so you might feel like, well, he has attention. It's not an attention deficit thing because he has attention to this area. But his shoes are still in the same place they were three days ago. Exactly.

Heidi: A lot of people have a problem with the name attention deficit because it truly isn't attention deficit. It's almost like, too much attention. Okay. And like you were saying, they might have a hard time remembering to move their shoes because they have just been thinking about this one thing.

Rebecca: Okay.

Heidi: And so, which is a wonderful thing, however, it can also hurt you. And so what was really cool, and I don't need to get into all the brain science behind it, but it's almost like a faulty switch in your brain. And that's kind of the difference that kids with ADHD have, is that faulty switch.

Rebecca: Well, talk a little bit about what is. So, because you mentioned earlier, part of the thing about ADHD is it stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. So you're looking you, based on the name, you're looking for somebody who can't pay attention to anything is hyperactive and bouncing off the walls, and it's a disorder. But what I hear you saying is a brain wired differently and the hyperactivity may or may not be there.

Heidi: It's super confusing. I think that was. That was something that I kept running into with my research. You know, I read multiple books, I listened to a ton of stuff, I read different articles, and I'm like, you're all saying kind of the same thing, but, like, not. And so, yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean hyperactive. There's the hyperactive side and then there's the inattentive side. That's what kind of they found. However, for whatever reason, they decided to call it all ADHD.

Rebecca: Okay.

Heidi: And so they've kind of gone away from the ADD versus ADHD, and they just call it all ADHD, whether you're inattentive or hyperactive or both, which is a really fun combination.

Rebecca: I think if I'm right, I'll put a link to this in the show notes, but I'm pretty sure if there's a YouTube people called the Holderness family and he has ADHD and he makes these videos about them and they're pretty hilarious, but I'm pretty sure one of them was about how it's the wrong name. So if I find that, I'll put it in the show notes.

Heidi: Yes. I love the Holderness family. They're awesome.

Rebecca: My point in saying what ADHD stands for is that you're talking about a brain wired differently. So tell us what that means. Tell us more about the wiring that makes this brain struggle to sometimes perform as expected but have an ability to do things that are unexpected.

Heidi: Ooh, I like that. That needs to be the subtitle. That's so good. Yes, absolutely. So the, like, brain science is that we all have these sections of our brain that when one is in use for the neurotypical or the non adhd brain, when one is in use, the other is not. And so the task positive network is what it's called when you're just doing a task and it's either you're doing the dishes, writing a story, whatever, your brain is on that task. Well, the difference is then there's also the default mode network. And that's kind of when that daydreaming comes in. You're either thinking about your future, you're thinking about your past, you're just kind of in that wisdom, making up a new story or. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. The difference is that they've actually been able to see in fmris, like, scans of your brain, they're actually able to see. The difference is that those with ADHD can be in both.

Rebecca: Okay.

Heidi: And so that's kind of that, like, lack of focus is showing up when that happens. And it's super fascinating. It's like that faulty switch.

Rebecca: So I want to explore that a little bit because I know if I'm doing something that has become automatic, let's say I'm washing the dishes or I'm taking a shower, and I know, like, my brain goes into just automatic do the routine kind of a mode, then I can presumably be in that, like, the brain, the daydreaming thing. But are you talking about things that take more focus than that for ADHD? Like, you're trying to do your math, but you're also in daydream mode. Okay, so.

Heidi: And that's when it really presents with the kids with ADHD, when they're like, you've been working on that page of math for like an hour now. You should really be done. Should have been done in two minutes. And that was my issue as a student, too. My mom would sit there and be like, you could have been done with school hours ago, but you've been sitting in the same spot. What have you been doing? And I'm like, oh, I just came up with a brilliant story idea. And that's kind of the tricky part with those with ADHD is they might look like they're not paying attention, but, man, you should see what's going on in their brain.

Rebecca: Okay. It's all lit up in there.

Heidi: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Rebecca: And then presumably, you're trying to help them get back on track with math, and they just want to talk about this new story that they've just come up with. And so your brain is doing something super cool, but it's not what's in front of you.

Heidi: Yeah.

Rebecca: Okay.

Heidi: So there's two ways to look at that. I mean, you could, you can, and as a homeschooler, you kind of have the freedom, but you could either say, like, okay, finished your math, and then we can work on the story or engage with them. Say, tell me about that story that is going on in your mind. And sometimes they just need to be able to dump it out. Have them give them a piece of paper, have them write it out, have them kind of get that out of their system, and then say, okay, when we're done with this, we'll go back to math and kind of engage in that reward system in a way, and it'll help them, in their mind, dump that thought that they can't get out of their mind, that story, or whatever it is, get that out of their mind so that they can have maybe little bit more space. Because both are good. Those two pieces of your brain are good, and they're important. You know, it's not like the default mode network is bad, but when you have a task in front of you.

Rebecca: It can be detrimental to the task.

Heidi: Exactly.

Rebecca: So based on everything that you've just said, is it safe to say ADH deers are pretty high on the creative scale?

Heidi: Yes.

Rebecca: Okay.

Heidi: Yeah, they actually have said that. There's quite a few people out there, you know, famous people. I'm trying to remember who it is, but like Albert Einstein or. Yeah, man, there's a ton of people who out there who have created or founded businesses. So David Nealman, the founder of JetBlue, John Chambers, the CEO of Cisco, we'll know the names. Michael Phelps, Justin Timberlake, Channing Tatum, singer pink. They're all people who have come out as people with ADHD, but the cool thing about them is that they've kind of gone beyond that to inspire people, that they can overcome it and show that they've not just overcome ADHD, but that they are who they are because of ADHD to really show that it's a strength and not a deficit.

Rebecca: You mentioned, have they sort of looked back at Albert Einstein's life and figured out that that might very well have been what was going on?

Heidi: I read that somewhere. So now I almost don't even want to say it, but I've read that there's quite a few people like that that are like, man, you were obviously a brilliant person in history.

Rebecca: I mean, he's famously struggled in school.

Heidi: Exactly.

Rebecca: And wasn't successful in the school environment.

Heidi: Yeah. And when you think about the school environment with an ADHD student, student, they're going to struggle in that classroom.

Rebecca: Well, and the ADHD student in all of their creativity is going to be sort of air quotes detrimental to the atmosphere that has to be in a classroom in order to keep the group moving forward. And so that becomes there isn't room for spontaneous creativity because you've got to keep all 28, 32, however many students moving forward at the same time. So I guess besides creativity, what I'm hearing in the descriptions of these people is energy.

Heidi: Yeah, absolutely.

Rebecca: I mean, when you think pink, you know, you think, like, monstrously huge creativity and all of this energy just pouring out into her stage performances, her outfits, her appearance, you know, all of these different things that it's just like, oozing out of her in so many ways. Even Justin Timberlake, like, he may not go to some of those same extremes, but I don't picture him ever standing still either.

Heidi: Yeah. And obviously they've, you know, they've become who they've become. They've gotten to where they are because of their energy, because of their creativity. They're icons for a reason.

Rebecca: And I certainly look at them and think, gosh, how do they keep track of all of those things? And obviously, we're talking about a very busy, busy brain that's multitasking often it.

Heidi: Sounds like because, and we multitask because we're bored when we're not. And it's.

Rebecca: Your brain needs all that stimulation.

Heidi: Exactly. They say that, you know, we have a lower amount of stimulation or a lower amount of dopamine, those with, those with ADHD. And so we're kind of craving that.

Rebecca: So adhders are often looking for that dopamine pump because it's not as easy as readily available.

Heidi: Yeah.

Rebecca: Okay. And when you describe these things and then you put them all into the body of a seven year old boy.

Heidi: It'S like the.

Rebecca: Yeah, multitasking and looking for, you know, that dopamine pump and trying to think about too many things at once and really wanting to think about this thing, but you're asking him to do this thing over here. And that sounds like a recipe for a lot of frustration on both sides.

Heidi: Exactly. When I was student teaching at a brick and mortar school, we had a. It was second grade and we had a boy with ADHD. So that seven year old boy, I can picture him, and it was such a struggle every single day. Like, come on, I'll call him Alan. Alan, like, stay on task, buddy. Like, I know you want to go. I don't know what you want to do necessarily, but, like, can we just. Just get through this? And it's so sad because I wish I could go back to that classroom now kind of knowing a little bit different, knowing more and be like, Alan, why don't we go run a lap around the classroom? Like, or not around the classroom, around the school, you know, like, why don't we go get your blood pumping doing something else? If it's something that you want to create in. In the classroom, like, let's go give you five minutes of a brain break and let's do that and then come back. Because I think there's so much power in being able to just focus on what they want to focus on for a minute and then coming back and they know, you know, we all have that. That ability to focus on that reward. When I am done with this, I can do this. And I think that having that external structure for those with ADHD is going to be key.

Rebecca: Do you think most kids who are ADHD feel different than the people around them?

Heidi: Absolutely. I think that they grow up knowing somehow that they are a little different. And those maybe who haven't been diagnosed kind of wonder, what. What is that difference inside of me?

Rebecca: Why is this so hard?

Heidi: Yes. Yeah. Why am I not able to focus? And everyone else is done with their schoolwork? But I've been sitting here trying, but I just can't figure out this problem because I can't focus on it. And so they actually, like, in all the research that I've looked at, they've talked a lot about how self esteem is a huge issue and just understanding that your brain is different and that, I think, is a huge reason why I kind of let's. I hyper focused on ADHD for a while and I learned so much about myself and then my students. And I think the reason I wanted to know that was because I wanted to know the why behind ADHD. Why do I feel different? Why do these students feel different. And in all of the research it talks about how seeing it as a superpower can drastically change your view.

Rebecca: Well, talk about a twelve year old with ADHD like your body's starting to change. You're starting to be more aware of the world around you and what's going on. And yet you, so you already feel, all twelve year olds feel like they don't quite understand where they fit and who they are and what's going to happen. And, you know, suddenly your brain gets the bigger world and where do you fit in that and how what's gonna happen in your life? And yet a kid, talk about a kid with ADhd who's facing that as far as how adolescence hits that man.

Heidi: Middle school is hard enough and then you throw something like ADHD and that kind of that stuff, that self conscious feeling of I'm different. I would encourage anyone who has a middle school student with ADHD or is a middle school student with ADHD to really just ask yourself what are your strengths, what are you good at and what do you enjoy? What's something that comes to you naturally that other people have a hard time with? Because yes, you can compare yourself and see, I struggle with this and this and this and everyone else is doing such a good job, or oftentimes the comparison is negative, but try and make it a positive. Try and say, man, like everyone else was having a hard time running the mile, but I was one of the first to finish it, or, you know, whatever that is for the student with ADHD in middle school, especially because that comparison game is hard, or maybe even.

Rebecca: Breaking it down into like, I have a really hard time writing the stories I'm supposed to write, but I'm not. It's not hard for me to come up with the ideas. Yeah, but getting it down on paper is hard and I think it's important with all kids. But I wonder, with ADHD as parents, if we ask ourselves what's the point? Could relieve a lot of pressure off of us as the parents and the student, because what's the point? If the point is to have a good vocabulary, come up with a good story and get it written, get, get it put down in an organized manner, then the handwriting and the typing is not the point. And speech to text could be really helpful.

Heidi: Yes, absolutely.

Rebecca: If the point is the handwriting, let's only do as much as necessary.

Heidi: Absolutely. And let's forget the rest because it's not important, at least not today. Something I talk about a lot with younger kids who are learning to read and write, and not necessarily with ADHD, but it kind of goes along with it is when they're learning to write a story or they're learning to write sentences. Forget spelling for that day. Like, it doesn't matter. You don't need to constantly correct the student who's learning how to spell. You don't need to correct their spelling all the time. And so it's kind of the same thing with those with ADHD. If they're struggling with something, whether it is writing a story or doing those quick math problems or whatever it is, try to choose a time and a place where it's appropriate to correct them. And not all the time. If they're just trying to do it quickly, maybe that's not the time to correct them. But if they're trying to master a skill. Yeah. You know, feedback is always helpful when maybe not a constant thing.

Rebecca: And sometimes I would imagine the point might not be the tasks, but learning to organize them.

Heidi: Yeah.

Rebecca: Or learning to manage themselves. And, you know, maybe the point is that you remembered to wear socks, not whether or not they match, you know?

Heidi: I don't know. Yes. I mean, absolutely. And I think that with kids with ADHD, it's so important to instill those skills, whether it is wearing socks and not matching them or math skills or writing skills. Sometimes it is just about developing those life skills and not necessarily those academics.

Rebecca: And academics come so much more easily if you are feeling good about yourself. So if you can build up their self esteem or their recognition in the skills they are good at, then learning a different skill is maybe not quite as discouraging.

Heidi: Yeah. Encouraging that those skills to come into place. You know, if you're. If your child's passionate about dancing or gymnastics, give them that outlet. I think having an outlet like that is going to speak volumes into their daily academics.

Rebecca: So I know around me, I've heard a lot more people in the last, I don't know, four or five years talking about, I think my child might have ADHD, or think I have ADHD. It's a topic that's kind of a hot topic right now. And I know that in your research, you've also found some ways that ADHD or other things can look like ADHD. Let's talk about that for a minute.

Heidi: Yeah, absolutely. It's this concept, right, that there's a lot of people who are showing those ADHD symptoms. And I think it's almost become like, I don't know, a slang word isn't the right word, but, like, I forgot my key. I can't find my keys. I'm so add or, you know, like, I hear that kind of phrasing or whatever all the time. And so what I found is that there's actually something that doctors have kind of adopted as a. As a phrase or. Yeah, I'll just.

Rebecca: Descriptive?

Heidi: Yeah, descriptive, yeah. It's called vast the variable attention stimulus trait. And it's basically what they've adopted to describe those who might have ADHD symptoms, whether they're diagnosed or not. And so what I really appreciated, especially when I was reading stuff from these doctors, doctors Hollowell and Rady, they would often say, this is helpful. Whether you are ADHD, you have ADHD, or whether you have asked what I've been talking about. And so different accommodations that you can put into place, different ways that you can support or empower these students that we've been talking about.

Rebecca: Help them adapt.

Heidi: It helps them adapt. And I think, honestly, it can be maybe obvious why we all seem addicted is because, like, we're constantly distracted. There's so many stimulants out there right now. Commercials, I think, are getting shorter and shorter because our attention spans are getting shorter. And I think that kind of goes to show that those distractions are everywhere. And what I was mentioning earlier, that task, positive network, it's like a muscle. So the less you use it or the less amount of time that you use it, it's just gonna weaken. Whether it's writing a story, reading a book, whatever. If you're like, oh, I can only read a couple pages at a time because I can't pay attention, try and challenge yourself. So that can be for anyone. But I think that kind of goes to show what vast is talking about is that weakening muscle. And so if it is truly something that we're struggling with to be able to stay on task or pay attention, challenge yourself.

Rebecca: It might have more to do with jumping from screen to screen, from activity to activity, always. I even have had to kind of make a rule at our house, like, no, you can't be on a tablet and watch a show at the same time. Like, we're gonna do one thing.

Heidi: It's so true. I've noticed that when I'm, like, watching a show, I'm like, why am I on my phone? I'm watching a show. Why do I feel like I need to be doing so many things, even if it's just for entertainment?

Rebecca: Right? I've even challenged a couple of my kids to, as much as I don't have a problem with audiobooks, like, let's let's do yard work together as a family without the audiobooks going on so that we can communicate, so that you don't have constant stimulus going into your brains. We're going to take a break from that because it's so constant that our brains think there has to be something exciting going on all the time. And I've even noticed. It's interesting that you say that about only being able to read a few pages of a book at a time. I've noticed myself going down that path, and I love to read, and I've been like, why? Why can I not, like, stay focused on this until the action is like.

Heidi: Yes, you have to be halfway through the book to be able to keep it going.

Rebecca: Yeah, that drives me crazy. I've kind of blamed it on having too many kids, but I don't think that's actually what's going so true.

Heidi: I think there's a time and a place. Like, there's a time where you need to challenge that on task state of being. And then there's also a challenge of saying, hey, can you stay in that moment of daydreaming for a little bit? And maybe even with those with ADHD saying, yeah, go, go daydream. Here, take a book, write down what your thoughts are. And if you come up with a great story or a concept, if you.

Rebecca: Come up with a plan for a new business, yes, go be a millionaire.

Heidi: Come up with the next great thing. Exactly. Cause that's where those ideas come from, is when you're in that daydreamy state.

Rebecca: That's awesome. Talk about a couple of examples for families to see, sort of how ADHD can affect students, but also come out the other side to be a positive.

Heidi: Yeah, so I'll tell some stories that I read. I'll tell this first story. It was in one of the books, Doctor Hollowell, he's a. He's actually. He has ADHD himself.

Rebecca: Okay.

Heidi: And so his book was super fascinating to read because he was able to say stuff from the science side, but also from the personal side of I struggle with this. So it was really interesting to hear his viewpoint on a lot of things. I actually really enjoyed his book that he wrote with Doctor Rady, but Doctor Hallowell was talking about this time that he went to Shanghai and he had just released a different book and he was going to share about that book and present on it, and it was translated and everything like that. And so afterwards, this mother came up to him and in broken English was basically like, you just described my son in that presentation, please help me. And it was kind of one of those, he described it as like, what am I? I can't say no to a desperate mother like that, you know, and especially knowing the pain that it can bring when you're struggling with ADHD. And so he was like, okay, well, here's my email address. I obviously can't stay here and treat him myself. You know, I can't medicate him or anything like that, but I'm going to see what I can do. So she bought the book in her own language, shared it with her husband, and we'll talk. I think he called the boy Sam. That's not his name, but we'll call him Sam, and then we're going to just give you some things to do with Sam. And so it was really interesting because the mom, she was told to constantly remind him how much he was loved and how much he was valued. Now, in this culture, in this chinese culture, corporal punishment is often used in the classroom. And so it was not a nurturing, loving classroom environment, especially for this little boy, Sam, who couldn't pay attention to save his life. And so he was obviously being berated a lot for his actions or his lack of action, maybe. And so Doctor Hallowell gave the mother and the father the book to read. It was called driven to distraction. And he just developed this trust with the mother over a period of time and told her to work on the concept of a strength based model, something that he said and that he mentioned in this book. The other book that I was reading, ADHD 2.0, he used the description of those with ADHD have a brain like a Ferrari engine with the brakes of a bicycle. And so he used that picture to share that with Sam and say, nothing's wrong with you. You have a Ferrari engine as a brain. Like, that is beautiful. And so kind of that encouragement and that strengths based model. So rather than shaming him for being different than the other kids in his classroom, so they talked a lot about his race car brain, and the mother talked to him about how that's something to be proud of, not something to be shamed about. He just needed to work on his breaks, right? And so she was encouraged to use a lot more connection and warmth before he left for school every day. Doctor Hallowell said, like, make sure you're giving him big hugs. Lots of hugs. Make sure you're reminding him that you love him. It seems kind of like, simple. I don't know. When I was reading this, I was like, okay, is this going to make a difference. But he encouraged that before and after school. He stressed the importance of touch. So give him lots of hugs, give him lots of kisses, maybe especially because he knew that he was receiving a lot of reprimands at school. She was to read to him every single night, so she would read aloud to him before bed. And he also encouraged a lot of balancing exercises. So Sam was a very active kid. He would run a ton. He would ride his bike, he would do all that kind of stuff. But he encouraged him to do simple exercises. But the science behind it is basically strengthening that cerebellum, that that balancing is actually going to help strengthen your focus and other things that show up in ADHD.

Rebecca: And I want to go back a bit minute. Why the reading aloud every night?

Heidi: I think because of the love and nurturing that goes along with it.

Rebecca: Okay.

Heidi: The togetherness and the on task. He's sitting there, he's listening to something. He's not doing something else.

Rebecca: Practicing, being on. Okay.

Heidi: Yeah, yeah. Super fascinating. Cause all those little things, it don't seem like much to me. When I was reading this case study that he was sharing, I was like, okay, most people can do that. It's not like this. Amazing. Oh, my gosh. I've never heard of that before.

Rebecca: And so those most therapeutic things are small.

Heidi: It's so true.

Rebecca: You go to physical therapy, and they send you home with these little tiny exercises to do, like, most therapeutic things.

Heidi: It's true. It's not. And I think that's the beauty of it and maybe the hardship of it. We just don't think about it. Within weeks, though, this little boy showing such a difference that the school as a whole decided no more corporal punishment for him. They saw, okay, what they're doing is working, and what we've been doing for years has never worked with him. He was showing such a difference of being able to stay on task, get his work done. He wasn't distracting the classroom anymore, all of that stuff. And so the school changed, which I think was super neat. And then also what was cool. And you can kind of imagine being in a brick and mortar when there's one kid with ADHD who stands against the rest. Other parents know about him, right? And so what was really neat was that these other parents were starting to see a difference in Sam, too, and they were starting to comment on things, and that was really cool to me.

Rebecca: I'm sitting here thinking, as you're describing these different situations, that it strikes me that the disorder depends, like the word disorder, as part of ADHD depends on the environment that it looks like a disorder in certain environments, and it looks like a superpower in different environments. So if you're a third grader trying to sit in a classroom of 30 kids or you're pink on the stage, like, it looks very different now. I think we can't just rearrange our entire child's life to make it work. There are ways that, like you said, like, he didn't he. They worked with Sam to work on those breaks. And those brakes are important, but what's the point of having a Ferrari if you don't get to go find the, go to the salt flats sometimes and let her fly, you know, like, you've got to let that engine stretch itself sometimes and just see how fast it can go. So the brakes are important, but just pumping them constantly is also going to burn them out.

Heidi: Yeah, you know, totally. And that's the importance of, like, supporting that student and helping them to know, you know, how to use those skills that we're giving them. Hopefully, you know, giving them external structures to be able to focus the reward system, you know, whatever you choose to do with your student, so important, because then that's going to help them for the rest of their life. But absolutely. Like, how boring would it be to have a Ferrari in your garage?

Rebecca: So tell me a little bit if I can ask you personally, like, what's an example of how you have to practice those breaks? You have to put the effort into? Like, I know I need my brakes right now, and this takes extra effort, but I have to do it. And when do you let the engine fly?

Heidi: That's a great question. I. It sounds like something you would do with a five year old, but I actually put into place a lot of rewards for myself. I'll say I cannot go on my phone or I cannot do whatever it is that I want to do until I finish this task.

Rebecca: So you are highly motivated?

Heidi: So I'm highly motivated.

Rebecca: Okay.

Heidi: And it's amazing because when I have that motivation kind of pushing me, so to speak, it's like, man, I can do this little project in 20 minutes, and I have that motivation pushing me. So I use a lot of rewards.

Rebecca: So it may be things like basic work tasks that you need to get done or housework or something like that. That's, you would just say, until I've done mopping the floor, I'm not, I can't look at my phone.

Heidi: Yeah, okay. Exactly. And then just knowing that I get to do that when I'm done I, like I was mentioning earlier, I have that task list that I fill out each, each month, each week, week. And honestly, getting that little dopamine hit from crossing it off, that's huge, too. So whatever.

Rebecca: Whatever it takes.

Heidi: I love a good list, especially when I get to cross it off.

Rebecca: Okay. And when do you let the engine fly? How does that look like for you?

Heidi: It's a little harder, you know, as a busy mom of two kids and, you know, work and all that kind of stuff. But something that I love to do is schedule in times to write. Something that I find really helpful is journaling. And I've done that. You know, I have. I have a bookshelf of journals from since I was a freshman in high school, because it's something that's so helpful to me to be able to just sit down, dump out any and all thoughts, and that's where a lot of ideas can come from. A lot of times, you can almost picture, like, a bowl of popcorn in the microwave. It's just going crazy up there in my. In my mind. And so being able to just sit down and dump out all that popcorn, that is just kind of making me feel out of control or just like I'm a mess. Like, I can't even think straight right now. So I know that's kind of maybe an answer to a different question, but that's just something that came to my mind that I found.

Rebecca: When the engine's revving.

Heidi: Yeah.

Rebecca: Whether it can be or not right now. Like, the engine is revving.

Heidi: Yes, exactly. It's like, I can't do this right now, but there's just too much in my mind, so. And sometimes that's the give and take of. Yes. I have this project, like, this work task or whatever it is in front of me that I have to do. But I also know myself well enough now to know I'm gonna do it a lot better if I can go.

Rebecca: And if I take 15 minutes and do this other thing, I'll have space to get this other task done.

Heidi: Yeah. Because sometimes those tasks are so small that they don't take up a ton of brain power. And so when I'm doing those tasks, I'll be thinking about other things anyway. And I find that my. My thoughts will be much more positive if I'm able to go do that task first. And sometimes, and like I was saying earlier, too, about how our self esteem can often be really low, and in that daydreamy state that our mind can get in that default mode network, I mentioned how it can. That's where we think about our past. And so that can be about. I can start thinking about that stupid conversation that I had and how I said that thing that I shouldn't have said and, like. And then I'll spiral. Right. And so that, that's not helping anyone unless maybe I need to go apologize or something for it, but, like, that's not helping me to just spiral while I'm supposed to be doing this task. And so sometimes the best thing I can do is get up, go through the ball for my labrador, go run around or ride bikes for a few minutes with my kids outside, just getting busy and basically out of your head. Getting out of my head, yeah. And canceling that thought that I was having and then starting new is just out of curiosity.

Rebecca: In all of your research, has it come up that, like, regretting things you've said is a common thing for Adhders? Like, your brain's moving so fast, there's.

Heidi: So much going on. Yes. Well, there's totally. There's two sides to that. Because when you're in the conversation where you say something that you regret, you said something you regret because you weren't thinking. And then on the other side is we can spend a lot of time in that part of our brain where we're thinking about that conversation over and over or whatever it is we regret.

Rebecca: Talk about helping a family embrace their family member, their student. With ADHD, you've got three or four kids at home. You're homeschooling. Three are neurotypical. One is not. How do you keep the household from being dominated by that Ferrari engine? And how do you help the family embrace the superpower instead of feeling sort of stuck in the disorder?

Heidi: Yeah, it's a great question. I think my first thought was to be able to kind of create this, like, team mindset so that there's no comparison game between siblings or like, to really try and mitigate that rivalry concept. It can be really tricky. Like, absolutely something. So that would be something I would encourage is to see, like, how we're all one team and we're all going to have different strengths and different weaknesses. And that's okay. What we bring to the table is all good.

Rebecca: Do you think sometimes just because one student can sit and do their math and get it done, I think sometimes we mistakenly think we have to treat all our kids the same and sometimes we have to help our kids see that that's not actually fair. Treating you exactly the same isn't fair because you wouldn't want me to do this thing, and they don't want me to do this thing. It works for you. So we're gonna do what each student needs. And because you respond to those things differently, it doesn't like. That may seem like a privilege to you, but it's not to them. So letting them get up and go run around every 25 minutes is not a privilege to you, because that means your school takes longer, and you don't like that. So let's separate it out and deal with each student. You know, give each student what they need instead of giving everybody the same thing, because that's not always fair.

Heidi: Yeah. It's that whole concept of equity versus equality. Right. And so I. It's tough. It. You know, it is hard to see, but it is a good conversation to have, and that'll go for the rest of your life. You'll remember and you'll notice, like, we all need different things. It's kind of like any other, you know, a health issue. We all need different things. Somebody that's diabetic needs insulin, someone that's not. Doesn't, you know, or they. You need it. Maybe they need a different diet or whatever it is. And so that's a tough concept, and I don't envy that situation. But I think the thing.

Rebecca: How did you see your mom do it, that she did it without telling you?

Heidi: She's amazing. She just had a lot of patience. And I'll say that I think she did a phenomenal job of understanding that I was gonna get my work done. Not on her timeline, but I was going to finish my work. I always finished my work by the end of Friday. It's not like I ever went into Saturday with more work to be done, and it just kind of was like a no brainer. On Monday, we start the next thing. So you need to be finished by Friday.

Rebecca: She must have, without you realizing it, as a homeschooling mom, I'm thinking she must have also done a really good job of knowing how much you are capable of and not giving you more than you were able to do. I find that balance hard to find.

Heidi: Absolutely. And sometimes it was like, just do the odd numbers in math or whatever, and because the. The issue wasn't that I was dumb or incapable of doing my math, it was just that I wasn't going to learn anything because of how bored I was or, you know, math was not my strong suit. I think it's all about finding your students strengths and going with it. And so there's this reel or whatever on social media right now. And it's saying if your student or if your child is an excellent soccer player but not so great at math, hire a soccer coach, not a math tutor. So it's not saying math's not important, but what it is saying is it's saying go with their strengths and encourage those strengths because that's going to take you the long run, I think, especially maybe with students with ADHD going and finding those strengths, encouraging them in that, and then not focusing on what they're not great at. I think we'll speak volumes.

Rebecca: Well, Heidi, thank you so much for being here today. And will you give us a list of some references that we can put in our show notes for families who would like to read more about this?

Heidi: Absolutely. I'll give you a whole list.

Rebecca: Great. It's been a fun conversation. I really appreciate you coming today. Thank you.

Heidi: Thank you.

Rebecca: Thank you for joining us today, listeners. I hope that my conversation with Heidi has been an encouragement to you and that this has been a breath of fresh air for your homeschool. This has been another episode of the Sequoia Breeze podcast. I am your host, Rebecca LaSavio. Please write to me podcast@sequoiagrove.org. I am very encouraged when I am able to hear from listeners. I'd love to hear any ideas that you, you might have feedback or just response to any of the episodes. I'd love to hear from you. Please like and subscribe if you haven't already. And if you leave a review, I'd be thrilled. Have a great day and we'll see you next time. Bye.