The Sequoia Breeze

Rebecca: We're back. We're kicking off season three of the Sequoia Breeze podcast, a breath of fresh air for your home school. I am your host, Rebecca LaSavio. Thanks for joining me, listeners. I'm so glad to be back with you. Dear listeners, season three is going to be full of fun and helpful episodes. So before we go any further, please subscribe to the Sequoia Breeze so that you don't miss any great conversations that we will be having in the future. Spring in the charter school world means state testing. Since that's just around the corner, we are going to start off this season with two really helpful episodes about this topic. Today we're going to be talking to Brad Mumaw and Lacey Carroll, two of Sequoia Grove's testing coordinators, about the whys and hows and find out what testing looks like for them as parents and homeschoolers as well. Then next week, don't miss out as I interview a panel of homeschool moms who have some great perspective and tips on how to help your family navigate state testing in some ways that perhaps you haven't considered before. But first this week, let's turn to my conversation with Brad and Lacey as they breathe some fresh air into our understanding of why testing is so important. We have Lacey Carroll and Brad Mumaw here with us to talk about state testing. So first of all, Brad, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself, explain to us kind of who you are as a person and also why are you on this podcast?

Brad: Well, thank you for having me. I am Brad Mumaw. This is going on about 15 years in the field of education. Eight years in a home school independent study charter setting, which I absolutely love. I also have two kids. I have eleven year old and an eight year old that we also homeschool and have really enjoyed the ups and downs of homeschooling and all the joys and the struggles that we face, just like you do. And I'm in this role of a testing coordinator now, something I have done in the past. I've also taught in an MTSS or an ELD type instruction setting, as well as been a classroom teacher for students ranging from grades three all the way through grade six, kind of in all of my years.

Rebecca: Awesome. And I want to come back and talk to you about your kids in just a minute. But first, Lacey, introduce yourself.

Lacey: Hi, I'm Lacey Carroll. I'm actually newer to teaching. This is my third year teaching. All have been in a home school setting. I have three kids, twins that are in 7th grade and a fourth grader. And this is my first year into the testing world. I came to testing because I've seen some of my students and my own kids struggle with testing and I wanted to help make a change, to make it something that's not dreaded. I like to use that data in my own home school. I'm a home school mom as well, and I'm here to help families with testing.

Rebecca: You are both on the testing team, the coordinating team, to help get this out to all of the Squig Grove families and to help make it happen. But you are also both HSTs and Homeschooling parents, so you both understand the burden of testing from all of those different angles from the school that is accountable to the state for the testing, as well as the teacher trying to help the families through this experience as well as your own. Kids have to test testing in their life. Can I ask a little bit from each of you? What is testing like in your own homes?

Brad: That's a fun topic. It's not easy, right? I'll be open and honest. It's not easy. My son, my 11th grade or eleven year old excuse me, has Tourette's, something he was diagnosed with about four or five years ago. Four years ago. And with that, with him, there's all kinds of different struggles we face. Sensory processing, sometimes anxiety. He's also very black and white. He doesn't like to enter into situations where he's uncomfortable. He doesn't like to be in situations where he doesn't know the answer to things. That makes him really struggle. So testing has been a journey for our family ever since third grade, being open and transparent and honest as family members. My wife and I talked and we almost decided for my son's third grade year to opt him out of testing. And after kind of careful consideration and really thinking about it and talking with my son, we decided, no, we're not going to kind of go about that process and we're going to work through this together. We're going to tackle this difficult challenge. We're going to see how we can make it better and see what we can learn from it. So it's definitely been a journey for us.

Rebecca: Thank you for sharing so openly with us.

Lacey: No problem for me, I have two of my students that actually love to test. They love the challenge, they love to see the results, so they're fun to test. I have one that has really high anxiety about testing and struggles with the unknown of what's coming, of what she might see, of the hard things. And so we've really been working through those with her in our own home. But she also loves to see the results and loves to see how she's grown.

Rebecca: Awesome. It would be fun to get both of your perspectives from these various experiences. So let's start with the part that isn't a lot of fun to talk about first. Why? Tell us from that official seat that you guys sit in of being the testing coordinators for Sequoia Grove? Why is it important for each family to participate in state testing?

Brad: Yeah, I think on kind of the larger macro level, the simplest answer to it is as a California public charter school. We're required by law to have 95% of our population participate in CASP state testing as well. Our school wide assessment data is also a major part of our California charter renewal and our Wasp accreditation. Right. I think that's an easy way of.

Rebecca: Saying we get to keep going, we.

Brad: Get to keep going. We get to keep being a school and functioning the way that we do.

Lacey: But on a more personal and smaller micro level. Every school is different, and it takes its own approach to teaching and student learning, engaging student progress. This is especially true in our school setting since the Cast tests are statewide. They provide an opportunity to measure the skills of all students against the same standards in the same way. And these are just one way of measuring our students on where they're at. We know that there is no single assessment that can provide us with a full painted picture of how our students are learning and how they're progressing. But that's why we look at more than just one, and so this is just one result. And we don't use these for grading purposes. These assessments give us information that show us deeper understanding of how, as a school, we can come alongside you as parents and parent educators and guide your instruction. It also helps us tailor the curriculum offerings for each student and helps us understand what extra resources that we can provide.

Rebecca: How does Sequoia Grove look when you look at all three schools at their results? How are we doing?

Lacey: A lot of schools in the state showed significant learning loss with the COVID-19 Pandemic when they closed. And so as Sequoia Grove, we actually showed huge gains. Our students didn't stop learning because they were home anyways, so we showed gains in almost all areas across the board. We have a lot of growth to still continue to do, but it was exciting to see those gains that we had over the last testing year since we took a year off from testing. And so we got to go back and see how much we'd grown since the 2019 testing.

Rebecca: So our families didn't have to go into survival mode. We just carried on correct, and that shows correct.

Lacey: While other students were at home kind of learning on Zoom, our families continued doing what they did best.

Brad: Yeah.

Rebecca: Awesome.

Brad: I mean, Lacey brought up that key word of growth. I mean, that's really what it's all about. I mean, that's the whole goal of CAASP testing. It's one of those ways to measure growth. Right. It's an assessment where we have a set criteria of what we're looking for. It's something that the students do year after year from third all the way up through eight. So, like, that measuring stick hasn't necessarily changed, and it's a great way for us to show growth from one year to another.

Rebecca: One of the things as a family liaison that I hear at the park a lot are words like, well, we can opt out, we're allowed to. How does that work? Are parents allowed to opt out? What criteria should they use in deciding if their family should opt out or not? I know it's trickier than a lot of parents realize.

Brad: It really is. Yes. California Ed code, when it comes to the CASP assessment, does allow parents to request an opt out, but it does negatively affect the school. Participation rates are critical to the success of our school for multiple reasons. One of those reasons is because of everything that we kind of mentioned previously and how it allows us to look at our own self and as a school and how we can better come alongside of you guys and offer curriculum choices and develop better learning experiences. But the second reason is also that student participation and performance on state tests directly contribute to the accountability of our school's overall academic performance. In other words, our authorizers, the school districts in the state, look at our academic performance indicators as a factor to keep the school open. Right. Public schools are required to achieve that participation rate of 95% on all state testing. And if a school has less than 95% of its students participate in an assessment, the school receives an academic performance penalty by the state. Also, charter school renewal is based on academic performance indicators. So when we look at math and language arts, those indicators are determined by the CAASP test itself in participating rates. So they really are critical in preserving kind of parent choice and to continue to be able to offer the flexibility in your child's education experience.

Rebecca: So if we don't hit 95%, the state punishes the school, and when it's time to renew our charter or permission to exist, that can influence what those making those decisions think about the success of our school and whether or not it's worth allowing it to continue.

Brad: Exactly.

Rebecca: Okay.

Brad: The larger question that I try to ask myself, or even when I was thinking about it with my son, is wasn't really, am I allowed to opt out? I knew I could. It was more of, should I? Right. What are the concerns or the barriers that even I have in my own self and my own thought processes that would make me not want to participate? And I think that's where it's really good thought to kind of frame the conversation around that is, do I really need to? And what am I thinking that's making me not want to? And I know that's where Lacey and I would love to be able to come alongside families to help make them feel more comfortable and see how we might be able to bring down some of those barriers or concerns.

Rebecca: So in addition to taking those things into consideration, why do I want to opt out? What are the things that are blocking me from wanting to do testing or being willing to do testing. We can't ignore the fact either that we've more or less signed a contract with the school. Each of us, all three of us that are talking here have kids within these schools, that we've signed the contract saying, yes, we want all of the benefits of being part of a charter, the community, the funds, the access to so many different resources. And part of that agreement is that what my family will provide is participating in testing. So that is something we go into hopefully with our eyes wide open when we join the school and each year as we re sign that handbook agreement, correct?

Lacey: Yeah.

Brad: You really are making that kind of conscious decision, like, yes, I get it, but I'm willing to kind of navigate this.

Lacey: It goes right along with providing your work samples and having your LP meetings with your HST. It's just one of those things that we do when we sign that agreement to participate fully in the public school charter. Testing is part of that.

Rebecca: So when I get the results back, is the school going to judge me as a homeschooler based on what those scores are? It's intimidating. As a parent who's responsible for my kids education, it feels like you're taking that fear that we all live with kind of in the background on a daily basis and putting it under a microscope. And now I'm going to get these results, and it will be this glaring proof of whether or not I've done a good job with my kids. And my HST will see the scores and the administration can see the scores, and what are they going to do to me if the scores aren't high enough? Are those fears valid? Is the school going to judge how I'm doing as a teacher of my kids based on the results of this test?

Lacey: As a teacher and a home school parent and part of testing, I feel like my kids results would be judged a lot. I feel that same judgment, but they're not at all. It's not something that we're looking at. We're not judging. We just want to help come alongside you and find those holes, maybe, and celebrate the successes every testing time with you and alongside you as an HST. So that's what we're looking for. There's no judgment ever.

Rebecca: And if your child has never tested before, those scores are a little out of the blue. Right? You have no idea if they've grown, if they've fallen back. For the most part, you're kind of establishing a baseline for the following year's testing. Is that reasonable?

Lacey: Yeah. We take those CASP tests. For example, my daughter was a third grader last year. It was the first time she tested. I took those results and said, Great, and I filed them over the summer. That's what we did. I filed them away. We took her star, 360 star assessment from the beginning of the year. And we compared to where she ended the end of last year and saw if there were any holes. And so as a teacher, we can help you. Let's just say they tested low in math on geometry and then we see it again on the star. Beginning of the year assessment geometry comes up, we can help out and find different resources that are available to maybe add in a little extra geometry for them for the next learning period. I like to take a goal of every learning period of something that we find that they're testing a little lower on, and we focus on that in addition to what you're already doing. But that looks like 15 minutes. So if it's fractions, for example, she tested a little lower in fractions. So fractions are introduced in third grade more heavily. And so we spent the holidays baking, that's what fractions looked like for her. I took recipes and we halfed them on purpose, or we did one and a half on purpose. So then she had to calculate those fractions. And I can't wait to see what her star scores are going to be or what she's going to do on the CASP in the spring. Because we really focused on fractions, knowing that that was like a hole we saw. And so that's what we're looking for. With those results, there's no judgment that I didn't teach her fractions well enough in third grade. We need to teach fractions a different way, not on a worksheet. Maybe this time we're baking and using hands on, so that's what we're looking for when we get those test results back.

Rebecca: I've even seen so my kids have only done cast this past year. That was our first year because of COVID stuff and we didn't do it for a couple of years, but we've done piles of star testing at this point. And so when we first started it, when my now fourth grader was in first grade, it was a mess because we'd actually been overseas and we hadn't really worried about English phonics and English letters. And now suddenly we're just getting started. And so officially he was way behind as a first grader. He didn't know any of that, but we were able to see first of all, the first test he came back really good because maybe mom tried to be a little too helpful, but second.

Lacey: Test, never seen that happen before.

Rebecca: Didn't mean to skew it, but I figured out that I did by second test. I had him do it more on his own and was like, oh no, how did he fall so far behind? But we were able to see the growth through the next year and a half as he really did catch up because he was older. So he was able to learn all those letters and phonics faster than he would have as a five year old because he was older. Even though we'd chosen to kind of ignore that because he was busy learning a different language at that time. And I've done a better job of figuring out how to give the right sort of guidance and stay back and let them take the test themselves. Although a couple of times I've, even with various kids, had to say, did you actually try this time or did you just try to get it done really fast? But the helpful thing about the Star test is it makes the cast like the CAASP takes longer and it takes a little more concentration. But because they've already done the Star test so many times, it's not like a totally unknown thing to them.

Lacey: You can't just take the cast test results and not look at the Star results as well. Otherwise, we aren't looking at the whole child well, or at least the piece of the child.

Rebecca: Right.

Lacey: The whole piece of the testing child. Yes, you're totally right. So you got to have both.

Rebecca: Let's talk about actually doing it. How do we make this an experience that's not miserable for everybody involved? And if you, as the parent who's listening to this already, are rolling your eyes or have knots in your stomach or just utterly dreading it, how do we make sure we don't accidentally pass that along to our kids? So I just asked about three questions all at once. So let's break it down into let's make sure that we don't pass along our own dread or bad attitude about testing to our kids. How can we do that?

Brad: You're 100% correct. It happens incredibly easy. A lot of times our own fear or desire to protect our kids or even, I guess, our own insecurities can set a negative tone. I know it did for my son as well, the desire to kind of protect him and not throw him into a situation where it felt like it was going to be sink or swim and how is he going to do and was he going to have a breakdown. We kind of came to the realization, and I had to have kind of this conversation with my son as well, that these assessments are not a judgment on who he is as an overall person. Right. They're not a judgment on who he is as a student. They're not a comparison. They're not a competition, really. They're not even something you can pass or fail. It's not even about how well he did or didn't do. I kept saying to him, if he gave his best effort, then he realistically did really well. These assessments are simply about seeing what you've learned already and what you haven't. Right. They give us a roadmap to see what we need to learn next. And I think if we keep that mindset one in ourselves, but then as we're talking to our kids, I think we can kind of get out of that negative tone that we can accidentally set for them. At times.

Rebecca: And I know that for myself, sometimes I'll catch myself, whether it's about testing or about math or something else. I may not talk to my kids about it, but I might be talking to a friend or a grandparent or somebody, and they might be within an earshot. So while I may never say to them, I'm worried about you taking a test, or I really hate testing, but they might hear me say it, and how do kids get their opinions of new things or things that they have big emotions about? They look to mom and dad and to see what is their reaction. And so if mom hates it, I should hate it, too. So sometimes I have to even guard how I speak about it, even when it's not I'm not talking to my child. There's a lot to be learned from doing hard things, is what I'm hearing you say, Brad, that you thought that though testing would be hard for your child, it's still worthwhile with that a doubt.

Brad: I mean, one, for him to grow as a person, right. We're all going to face difficult challenges at time, but two, I mean, it's also just having that growth mindset, right. Going into a new situation, kind of. Not necessarily with a positive outlook, but with the mindset. Like, whatever I face, we're going to work through it. We're going to be okay. We're going to find a way to thrive. Let's see what we can gain from this or learn from this or what good can come from it.

Rebecca: Lacey, have you seen that in your own kids or with some of your students? Yeah.

Lacey: A lot of the anxiety that we hear from some families is the unknown of what the actual testing system is like. And one way we can help and come alongside the families is doing a practice test or an interim test. It's something that the HST can help walk you through. You can do practice tests on your own all day long if you want to, without a login. The students can see what the interface looks like. They can see what some of the test questions look like. It's a way to practice it to see that's a high anxiety trigger is the unknown. And so, especially for those third graders who now are new incoming third graders who haven't seen the cast test, it might be something really to look for from your HST and ask about a lot of anxiety. Last year was because we didn't have a huge chunk of our students hadn't never taken it before. So fifth graders it was two years ago, and fourth graders never saw it, and the third graders definitely didn't see it. So we had a lot of students coming in not ever having experienced the cast test itself. It is similar to star, but it is different. They are on the screen with the camera on, as opposed to with the star test where they're at home just with their parent educator. When you're on the cast test, you're on with a teacher and it's in a secure browser.

Rebecca: There's kind of a tension even of like somebody's watching me or could be watching me, as well as there's just a lot of tech involved and so there's various pieces to try to get right as well as is the two year old going to make noise or what? There's so many different things that are going on and that it can be hard, I think, for the kid to settle down and get going. I will say I definitely noticed last year that after day one it was much better. Everybody, like you said, they knew what was going on.

Lacey: For all of us, even the teachers, day one is hard and we have to front load our kids with that. It's going to be frustrating. It's not going to open and go easily if we come in knowing that our hope is that it does right, that's what we really want and we want there to be no issues and tech have no problems and that would be the most perfect picture of the world. But if we prepare them, it may take 15 minutes to get in. That's all right. And if we front load them with that, it's going to take 15 minutes to get in when it does. And we're not stressed that we're not in five minutes. So to me it's all about front loading and giving that information and showing them what it looks like so that when they get there, they're not surprised and shocked. It's like setting those expectations. Then there's no worry because I know it's going to take me that long to get in. I have to hit the little microphone and I have to listen to the music. But once they've done it, they're in and they're ready to go and it's just preparing them.

Rebecca: I've always worked pretty hard to tell my kids what they can expect with the day or an event or an experience or something as far as I know it. And I've seen them then be able to go into things with a reasonable amount of confidence. Even if they don't like it. They know this is what I expect will happen, this is what you are going to need to do. This is the part I don't know, but I'm not worried about it. It really gives kids so much more confidence going ahead because they know exactly what I know and they know that I'm not worried about the parts that I don't. And if it doesn't go that way, talk to me and we'll work it out so there's nothing to panic about. I've seen them, whether it's going through airports, whether it's going into unusual cultural situations or whatever might be happening around us, that just knowing here's what I can expect will be all right. And I think testing can really be similar. I realized that last year. Again, because of when we joined the school, we never had to test. And so my third grader was testing my 6th grader and my 8th grader, all three of them for the first time. And so I was unaware of all the information online to be able to see what the test is like, to be able to take practice tests, which I didn't do, but I did look at it and was like, oh, no, my third grader has to be able to write paragraphs and type it. So being able to prepare, that was so much more relaxing for me, which in turn, I can then project being chilled out about the situation to my children.

Lacey: Yeah, and the big thing is, talk to your HST during your LP meetings. Have your HST talk to your students so they can get specifics in those same resources. They're out there. They're out there for you on the Caasp.org website. And your HST has tons of information that we can share with you. We want you to be as prepared as possible. We don't want this to be a scary situation, and that's our goal.

Rebecca: And prepared, not because we need everybody to score through the roof, but because we don't want this to be scary for you or your kids.

Lacey: I don't want any kid to sit down and be like, what am I going to do? This is so nervous. But no, just come down with confidence and no, you're not going to know every question and how to handle that. That's another barrier hurdle that I see higher anxiety build in students. What if I don't know the answer? What do I do? Let's teach you some strategies on how to handle that. What do you know? What do you not know? What answer can you rule out? And yes, sometimes you're going to have to guess you're not going to know every answer. So going in knowing that you're not going to know every answer sometimes helps the student out to know that that's okay.

Rebecca: Brad, does your family have any fun testing day traditions or habits or ways of approaching things?

Brad: Yeah, we try to keep if we're testing in the morning, we try to keep it a lot lighter in the afternoon as far as what other lessons we may be doing. We also try to honestly take field trips during that week. It could be even just the park doing nature lessons out there. It could be going to museums or other things, right. I mean, one, they're going to be sitting for a while and at the computer, so trying to get them active and getting that energy out, but just trying to give them a mental break and look for something to enjoy in the afternoon. Could even be different treats, right? Maybe donuts in the morning or ice cream or whatever your child may really enjoy. But, yeah, we try to. Make it more of a fun week. Right. We're going to focus. We're going to do this in the morning. In the afternoon, we're going to go out. Let's have some fun. Let's keep learning in a more active way.

Lacey: We like to chew gum. There you go. When we test at our house, we chew gum. It doesn't work for everybody. Sometimes maybe it's a sucker or it just keeps your brain focused on the chewing, but also on the testing, and I think that's worked for us.

Rebecca: That's a great idea. I know we had copious amounts of snacks last year. Maybe I'll throw the chewing gum in there too.

Lacey: Snack makes everything good. It's got to help with testing.

Rebecca: I stay away from the donuts, though. I find that leads to sugar crushed tears later on. We'll do the donuts. The day after the test, you've arrived. You can have donuts now. So one of the things I found that I struggled with last year was that I was a little bit stuck with the kids would ask me a question, and I didn't know what I could answer or couldn't answer, or I wasn't quite sure what my role could be to help them. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Lacey: Yeah. For the CASP test, parents are not allowed to even be in the room after the test has begun. They're supposed to be out of the room. It's a secure test. That's why we do it on a secure browser. So absolutely help with tech questions, get them into the test, especially our littler ones that definitely need that more tech help. But then you have to step out and back, and it's really we want to know what they know. And so mine even asked me, Mom, I need help. But I would answer, I can't help you. What do you know? And I ask them that every time. What do you know? Do your best.

Brad: They're right. It's really parents, and even as teachers, we have to be hands off, right? We're watching the kids. We can see they might be struggling. They've been sitting on a question for 20 minutes. And we want to be able to reach out and help too, but we can't. Right. We're not allowed to really say anything. It's hard to even kind of give them instructions for navigation. So it is definitely very hands off. So that's where going back to having prepared your students beforehand, letting them see the platform and how to navigate, is a huge benefit that will help them in the long run.

Rebecca: Last year, I was given a piece of advice by somebody who wasn't even with our schools. That what I was really worried about for my third grader, was being able to write a paragraph was a brand new skill, but trying to type it out at the same time, that's asking a little brain to do an awful lot. And she said, well, have him. He's got scratch paper, have him write it out first so that the writing and the coming up with what he wants to say is one skill and the typing it in is a different skill and they don't have to happen simultaneously. And that took so much pressure off of me because, again, he just barely learned to put a paragraph together and he doesn't really know how to type very well. So I was concerned, not that he couldn't answer any questions, but how was he going to functionally be able to do this? And that single piece of advice and helped me be able to prepare him to be more comfortable and show what he actually knew.

Lacey: A lot of times, students can actually answer the question. If you were to ask them verbally, especially our homeschool students, tell me how you would answer this. They could tell you that. But to be able to type that into the platform is a major hurdle that we've identified. So we suggest starting them even now, typing.com. We have an all access program that the school offers for free for typing. You can reach out to your HST for that and have them start using the typing programs now, because it is something that they are going to have to be able to do, is to be able to type.

Rebecca: Yes.

Lacey: Writing that paragraph out is a tool. They can take any notes they want. They have a highlight tool inside the platform itself. So if they're doing the reading passage and see something that, oh, I need to come back to this, they can highlight that and use that tool inside the program. They can take notes on their scratch paper, especially with the math. They can write all the notes they need to on there for the math.

Brad: Yeah, I think it's a great resource to be able to write your essay first. I think whatever we would normally have our students do at home, they can still do it for the test, right? They can still go through and write their rough draft. They can go back on paper and edit it. They can create their own graphic organizers to help get their thoughts out. So whatever they do at home, nothing is preventing them from doing it with the CASP as well. I think it's a great idea to have them write the essay first and then from there, go ahead and type it in.

Lacey: The only thing they can't do is Google on their phone.

Brad: Or ask, siri.

Rebecca: Let'S talk a little bit about success and results. What should a parent call a successful testing experience?

Lacey: I think that looks different for every family. Mine, success looks like no tears. That would be success for us. A completed test, there's four parts, so completing all four parts without tears, to me, that's success. That is the first level of success. I feel like there's several levels that we could look at.

Rebecca: Brad, what does success look like at your house.

Brad: In some cases, it's very similar to Lacey's. Not getting or getting through it without tears is definitely a big one. I think also reflecting back with my son, like, okay, was it as bad as what you were kind of making it out to be? Was it harder? Was it easier? How do you feel like you did? But really success is knowing for him that he did kind of work through it. He gave it his all. Now we're going to look at we're going to be open and honest. What did we do well? What did we miss? What are we going to revisit? Again, I don't look at it as all successes wrapped up in him achieving a high score. Right. That's not at all. I look at it more from a teaching perspective of let's look at this roadmap and let's see where we're going next, what we get to learn next.

Rebecca: So first level of success is really attitude and the child's willingness to take on a difficult task and to complete that task. So we're really talking about life skills. We're not talking about results of a test.

Brad: Without a doubt.

Lacey: I want them to have pride. Pride that they completed something that was hard and they persevered that.

Rebecca: So that, yes, we don't need any results on paper to achieve those things.

Lacey: That's correct.

Rebecca: Do you think that taking these tests prepares them for future experiences?

Lacey: Yes. First one that came to my mind is a driver's test. In order for 16 year olds to be able to drive, they have to take a written test. And that's pressure.

Rebecca: It is pressure. It's pressure because you want it pressure because you feel dumb if you don't pass it.

Lacey: I think you're doing it right there in the middle of that DMV office.

Rebecca: With all those people.

Lacey: So yes, how to persevere through that, that's just a mini one.

Rebecca: When we get those results back, I imagine there are multiple ways of approaching this. Some parents might never look at them. They might not really be interested in knowing they just took the test to cooperate. They were willing to see it as a character building activity. And I don't care what those test results say because I don't teach to the test and that's not how we do things. But what could we do with them to make this a useful experience? Not just something we do to cooperate, but something that becomes a tool for our family.

Lacey: How I use the results with my students is that I take them as a snapshot and I put them together with everything else they're doing. So I take a look at their let's just talk about math, for example. If they're using a math curriculum and they take an assessment with that, I compare it to how they did in that domain. So, for example, geometry is a really easy one to talk about. So how they did in their geometry test, in their math curriculum, and I compare that to how they did in geometry on the star. And I take those as a whole and look and see where some holes are or where some successes have been. So, as I've mentioned before, we were working on fractions. So I can't wait to see how she does on fractions this time, because it was an area that was a little lower on the state test last year and on the her star. So I want to see how and we spent and focused time on it. I use those in chunks. I take one piece. When you look at the whole picture of all of those results, it's overwhelming. It's just too much. I take one piece of it, and what can I do next to help them achieve success in this one piece?

Rebecca: Brad, how do you see results?

Brad: Yeah, I think what lacey said is spot on, kind of the same way I like to, as a home school dad and as a teacher, just review my own practice. Right. I look at kind of each of those domains, like lacey said, fractions being one of them, or even just the broader concept of mathematical reasoning, what does that look like? And I spend time reflecting on it. I think about what was our curriculum like this year, even where we're going next year, what are my thoughts for curriculum next year? I kind of look at the beginning of the curriculum and what's being covered and what's not, if there's anything that would be good to kind of review. So for me, it helps me to kind of plan the next year, but it also helps me reflect of different things that maybe I wanted to change, that maybe we didn't cover as well as what I would have liked to. And it helps kind of focus my mindset. I can show the results to my son, but they don't necessarily mean anything to him. It's honestly kind of a little ambiguous to him, but it really does help me kind of, as a parent, honestly help plan.

Rebecca: I think sometimes, too, I can look at it and say, oh, no, we haven't covered that yet, but I know that, and I'm planning on covering it next year. So I'm not upset that they didn't know that on the test, because I know they didn't know that's. The beauty of home school is that I combine my kids as much as I can, which means we may not get to things in the same order or in the same way at the same time. We'll get there when we get there.

Lacey: A lot of times, depending on the student, as well as involving them, you know your kids best. So whether they would do well knowing their score or not, like I said, I have two very competitive kids that really want to know. And so they like to see the score and see what areas they scored lower in. And they approached me to figure out how to fix that or what they could do differently to improve that score. So knowing your kids, to them, it becomes a competition. What can I do? Help me with this. So knowing your students, there's two ends of the spectrum too. Some really don't want to know and we thank them for taking the test and appreciate them trying their hardest. And those that want to know too, it's fun to be able to dive into it. As a teacher, it's like a puzzle to me. Like, what can we do next and what can I help you with next and what resource can I share with you to come alongside you to help gain more achievement or growth? It's fun for me.

Rebecca: So talk to me about the particularly we've hit on this, but let's be specific, the particularly anxious child. Do you have advice for parents who maybe they don't mind the idea of testing, they just really dread the ordeal that it will be for them and for their child. How can they work through this creatively with their child and with their HST?

Brad: Yeah. As a parent, obviously you know how your student or child functions best. I think anxiety is a tricky one because there can be so many root causes for it. So that's where obviously, really knowing your child and what may be stressing them out or causing that anxiety or setting them off is the major thing to first discover. And then obviously as a parent, we have already so many tools at our hands to help our children kind of go through it. And if it's just the nervousness of the unknown, then let's not make it unknown to them. Let's show them what it is. If it's kind of an anxiety, if they feel like they're going to fail, then let's have that discussion about there really isn't any failure in this, right? This is just about us monitoring and seeing what you know and what you don't. If it's just overwhelming, then let's figure out how we can kind of break it down into small little chunks or parts so that it's not visually overwhelming for the student. If it's anxiety about sitting there that long or fidgeting, then we can provide like a fidget toy to help them kind of navigate through that. So really it just goes back to finding out what that root causes and then giving them the tools they need in order to get through that.

Lacey: The state test isn't timed. We are testing. We want to know what you know. So you do have time. There's two different parts to each section I think it's important to talk about.

Rebecca: Well, before you even go there, I want to say it's not timed, I find to be a blessing and a curse. You can take your time and figure this out, but you can also be stuck for a really long time. So perhaps one way to deal with whether it's a high achiever or an anxious child is if you've been stuck on this problem for a certain amount of time, it might be time to guess and move on, but come up with a plan. How are we going to handle this? How long is too long?

Lacey: You are so right. And there are times as a teacher when we're administering it, we can actually talk to the students while they're testing through the program and, Are you okay? And sometimes we just have to tell them it's time to move on if you don't know it. So, yes, it is time. And it can be a curse and a blessing at the same time, but that's knowing your student. Every student is going to be different.

Rebecca: Because you also have the ones who will just click without really thinking.

Lacey: Absolutely.

Rebecca: Slow down. Think about that for a minute.

Lacey: Correct. We are thankful that you are doing it, but, yes, please take your time.

Rebecca: I'm sorry I cut you off to say something else.

Lacey: I think it's important to know that there are two parts to each section. So English has what we call a cat, and that's a multiple choice short answer section. And English also has a performance task, which is a longer task. That one's going to take you a little longer. It is writing like you said, it is a paragraph for third graders, and it's multiparagraphs with multi sources the older they get. So setting those expectations up for the students so that they understand those multiple choice short answer might be a little faster, but that performance test will take you a while. And so going into it knowing that, so they don't feel like they're failing because this is taking me so long, why is it taking me so long? Because then you start to second guess yourself and that causes a spin. Same thing for math. There's the cat, which is multiple choice and short answer, and then there's a longer, more multi step problem, usually with one set of data that you answer multiple questions using one scenario, it's different for every grade level. And you can see those practice tests on the CASP just to give them an idea of what they're getting into and setting those clear expectations on what they're going to see.

Rebecca: So, again, Brad, if you've both referenced multiple times to these places where you can go to see what's going to be on the test take practice test, we will have these things in the show notes. So if you have not taken this test before or you really want to make sure that your kids are prepared and know what to expect, you can find those resources there. You can also talk to your HST, and my guess is they will be in the scoop as well, that there will probably be some links to some of those things. So keep your eye out because the closer we get to testing, the more and more and more you're going to see information out there. And again, I kind of had to see that several times last year before I realized, oh, in fact, I think it was even on a discussion on the Facebook page that I finally understood, oh, I can actually see what these tests are going to look like. I just hadn't paid attention. I knew testing was coming, it was what it was. And finally I realized we can know a lot more about what's going on. So they'll be in there, you'll find them so you can get a hold of those.

Lacey: But Brad and I are also available, so if you email it testing@sequoiagrove.org, we'd be more than willing to have a conversation with you to help work through some anxieties that you feel like your students might be having or you're having about testing. We are more than willing to have those discussions with you.

Rebecca: I think sometimes we can feel like testing is coming from above and the people who are running it just want to ram it down our throats and force us all to do it. And we can kind of dehumanize the whole process a little bit. And I hope that through this conversation, families have gained a much better understanding of the very real people that are behind this process and that you guys are here. Not to ram testing down anybody's throats, but in fact for the opposite, to make it as accessible and as pleasant of an experience as can happen. And so I even appreciate you putting yourselves out there. It's easy to contact you testing@sequoiagrove.org and people can ask questions and get answers from you, from the real people behind that email. Oh, one idea that I heard too was if you feel like your kids are going to sort of whine to you or cry or play into that like, mom thing that trade with another mom proctor each other's kids, you don't have to be there for.

Lacey: Another option that we have for testing this year is we've opened up more in person testing locations. We didn't have that option as big last year, but this year we are offering more spaces for in person testing. If you feel like your student would be better in a testing environment as opposed to having your testing done virtually at home with your parent educator.

Brad: Another thing that could also help make it easy the school has Chromebooks available for rentals as well. Obviously, most of us have computers at home, but there is an ease to be able to get the Chromebook from the school that already has a secure browser on it. We know it's going to work, so you would kind of eliminate that whole hassle and struggle of making sure what you have at home is going to be okay. So if you haven't reached out to the school or your HST about asking for a Chromebook, I would highly recommend that you do so.

Lacey: As a parent, I know the struggles of setting aside three days at least for testing for your families. We totally understand the struggle with that. The information that I'm able to get from this as my kids teacher is valuable to me. So I can see that what we're doing is working, and if it's not working, we can fix it. So as a parent, I come alongside you and understand that it does take in time to do the state testing. It's a big chunk of time. We totally understand that. And as a teacher, I thank you for doing your testing because we're able to get valuable information to come alongside you and to help your students grow each year. And as a testing coordinator, we're thankful for you to test because it helps our schools out and we're able to continue to offer that parent choice and continue to get to do what we do. So we say thank you for testing.

Brad: Well said, Lacey.

Rebecca: Very well said, Lacey. Thank you both so much for joining me today. And parents, I truly hope that this conversation has been a breath of fresh air for your home school as we approach the testing season. The goal of this podcast today has been to help equip you to guide your students through a difficult task, but one that is important, one that is necessary. And I hope that you feel more relaxed going into this knowing that you aren't alone, you have resources, and I hope that you've gained even a few ideas for how to approach testing week with more positive attitude and better tools in your toolbox. Please don't forget to join us next week for the next episode of The Sequoia Breeze podcast as we talk with various real life parents within our schools, parents who do not work for the schools, who have various experiences with testing based on all of their different kids needs and some of them with difficulties. And I hope that you will tune in to hear about how they approach that, why they're willing to test, and some of the tips and tricks that they use to get through testing as well. So thank you for joining us today and we look forward to seeing you next week. I hope this episode was helpful and enlightening to you today. Do you know another homeschool parent who would benefit from the inspiration in today's episode? Send them a link and invite them to listen as well. And don't forget to subscribe and rate The Sequoia Breeze to help other families find us as well. Do you have any questions or thoughts about this topic or future episodes? Send me an email at podcasts@sequoiagrove.org. I am your host, Rebecca LaSavio, and thank you for joining us today on The Sequoia Breeze. I hope you've had a breath of fresh air for your home to school.